The NFL 2011 Thread

robsam · 2012-01-02T17:15:40.000Z

Well, it seems to be the defining Romo moment in your mind, but it’s never mentioned by any radio talk show hosts, or shown in replays when they talk about Romo when they set up the pre-game stuff.

Maybe it’s a “you” problem. The rest of us are still chortling over the fact that you honestly seem to believe Tebow is a better NFL QB than Romo.

Brandon_Clements · 2012-01-02T17:48:18.000Z

gameoverman:

The point of mentioning the field goal was to point out the “wtf?” nature of Romo. Yes, his defining play(to this point) is a field goal attempt! That tells you what you need to know about Romo as a QB.

Dude, you can pick far more hope-stealing plays from Romo’s career than that one.

Be honest, if his career was over right now and ten years from now some highlight reel of current QBs comes up, what clip do you think is guaranteed to make it for Romo?

From this season? That one pass to Holley in the SF game (with broken ribs and a punctured lung) in a come from behind win against probably the best San Francisco team in a decade. Clint Freaking Longley gets in highlight reels for godsake; Romo’s going to have one.

Not_One_Of_Us · 2012-01-02T18:00:05.000Z

AndrewMyers:

Fitzgerald is absolutely unreal.

You see the amazing shit he did in the fourth quarter/overtime? Fitz took a hit in the third quarter that bruised a lung and was spitting blood on the sidelines. That was in the third quarter.

sluggo · 2012-01-02T18:18:55.000Z

This is sort of a hypothetical question, which occurred to me the other day while watching Fitzgerald make another one of those ridiculous 1-hand twisted body catches: what would he have to do just to get in the conversation with Rice as the best WR ever?

Let me be clear: I don’t think he’s anywhere near there now. He has some body of work he has to build up before you can even think about putting him in that conversation. But I do think, more than any other WR in the game right now, he’s the rare player with such incredible talent that I could concievably see him maybe getting into that conversation one day.

My question is, what would he have to do? Does he need Super Bowl wins and MVPs? Clutch playoff performances? Putting up big numbers and making circus catches in Arizona for the next 8-10 years and even breaking records wouldn’t seem to be enough without big wins to go with it. At some point, does he look to get out of Arizona (assuming they don’t become legitimate playoff contenders) in pursuit of a higher place in history?

AndrewMyers · 2012-01-02T18:29:20.000Z

sluggo:

what would he have to do just to get in the conversation with Rice as the best WR ever?

Keep up his ridiculous level of performance for, oh, another decade yet – once he does that, I’d say look at his numbers. Without some rings though, yeah, he’ll be the Dan Marino of receivers.

robsam · 2012-01-02T18:33:45.000Z

sluggo:

This is sort of a hypothetical question, which occurred to me the other day while watching Fitzgerald make another one of those ridiculous 1-hand twisted body catches: what would he have to do just to get in the conversation with Rice as the best WR ever?

Let me be clear: I don’t think he’s anywhere near there now. He has some body of work he has to build up before you can even think about putting him in that conversation. But I do think, more than any other WR in the game right now, he’s the rare player with such incredible talent that I could concievably see him maybe getting into that conversation one day.

My question is, what would he have to do? Does he need Super Bowl wins and MVPs? Clutch playoff performances? Putting up big numbers and making circus catches in Arizona for the next 8-10 years and even breaking records wouldn’t seem to be enough without big wins to go with it. At some point, does he look to get out of Arizona (assuming they don’t become legitimate playoff contenders) in pursuit of a higher place in history?

I’m sort of dumbfounded, I was all ready to make a case for Fitz being on Jerry Rice’s level, started writing, saw I was wrong, started over, wrong again!!

Rice was the best WR in the NFL, ever. I say this as a Cowboys fan that suffered greatly from the pain inflicted on my team by Jerry Rice.

Lorini · 2012-01-02T19:12:57.000Z

robsam:

So we’ve established you don’t what you are talking about.

You dismiss the fact that the Giants beat the #1 AFC seed with a handwave, hoping no one noticed it.

You bravely mention that Dallas beat the NFC #2 seed.

You ignore the fact that the NFC East is the home of the most bitter rivals in any division of the NFL, much like the SEC in NCAA football, where anyone can beat anyone on a given day.

You finish it with a nice “living on past glories” snarky comment, ignoring the fact the Giants ruined a perfect season for the Pats and won the Super Bowl not long ago.

The NFC East may be a bit down, but spread Dallas, NYG, and Philly around the rest of the NFL divisions and (AFC or NFC) and all three of them make the playoffs.

I don’t agree with all of this. The AFC West has long time intense rivalries as well, and I’ll never forget when Lovie Smith was hired, he promised Bears fans that their team would beat Green Bay and promptly did so.

The beauty of the NFL is that there are a good number of these rivalries. And FWIW, I really don’t think the Eagles at least would have gone to the playoffs in any of the divisions. I’m not sure Dallas would either.

There is football outside of the NFC East. I realize you Cowboy fans don’t want to acknowledge it, but really you should wake up and look around sometime :).

Shadarr · 2012-01-02T19:15:42.000Z

Jerry Rice scored 208 touchdowns in his career. That’s 30 more than Emmett and 50 more than the next highest WR, Terrell Owens. He also had 1549 receptions, 400 more than the number two man on the list, Tony Gonzales. That is thirty-five percent more than the second-best receiver in history.

Fitzgerald is tall and has good hands, but what does he have to do to be in the class of Jerry Rice? Dominate the game like no other receiver, year after year. Fitzgerald’s best year was 13 touchdowns. Rice did that twice and had six seasons with more. His career high was 22. Fitzgerald has never cracked 1500 yards in a season, Rice did it four times with a career high of 1848.

Fitzgerald is arguably not even the best receiver playing right now, as he’s only ever led the league in receptions once and never led in yards. If there’s a player in the league today with a shot at challenging Rice, it’s Calvin Johnson not Fitzgerald.

robsam · 2012-01-02T19:18:22.000Z

You also argued with me that Phillly was better than Dallas two years ago after Dallas swept them in the regular season and then crushed them in the playoffs the next week, so it’s kind of hard to take you seriously on this subject. :)

robsam · 2012-01-02T19:19:43.000Z

Lorini:

There is football outside of the NFC East. I realize you Cowboy fans don’t want to acknowledge it, but really you should wake up and look around sometime :).

You also argued with me that Philly was better than Dallas two years ago after Dallas swept them in the regular season and then crushed them in the playoffs the next week, so it’s kind of hard to take you seriously on this subject. :)

Brandon_Clements · 2012-01-02T19:24:48.000Z

Shadarr:

Jerry Rice scored 208 touchdowns in his career. That’s 30 more than Emmett and 50 more than the next highest WR, Terrell Owens. He also had 1549 receptions, 400 more than the number two man on the list, Tony Gonzales. That is thirty-five percent more than the second-best receiver in history.

Fitzgerald is tall and has good hands, but what does he have to do to be in the class of Jerry Rice? Dominate the game like no other receiver, year after year. Fitzgerald’s best year was 13 touchdowns. Rice did that twice and had six seasons with more. His career high was 22. Fitzgerald has never cracked 1500 yards in a season, Rice did it four times with a career high of 1848.

Fitzgerald is arguably not even the best receiver playing right now, as he’s only ever led the league in receptions once and never led in yards. If there’s a player in the league today with a shot at challenging Rice, it’s Calvin Johnson not Fitzgerald.

Rice also did that in a far more “You’re going to get the shit knocked out of you going over the middle” league than it is now.

JonRowe · 2012-01-02T21:40:40.000Z

Rice also had a quarterback that was good for more than just a few years.

Bill_Dungsroman · 2012-01-02T21:46:08.000Z

robsam:

As I reflect on the disappointment of the 2011 Cowboys, I can still find some small bit of joy when I relive this moment.

Given that 14-2 would still be the 2 seed, you go for it!

Shadarr · 2012-01-02T21:53:20.000Z

Jon Rowe:

Rice also had a quarterback that was good for more than just a few years.

That’s beside the point. Fitzgerald had a good QB and a dynamite offense for several seasons and those seasons never approached the level of Rice’s best seasons. And like I said, he only led the league in receptions once and has never led in yards. He could’ve played his whole career with Warner and he still wouldn’t be in Rice’s class.

Jason_Becker · 2012-01-02T21:53:47.000Z

Shadarr:

Fitzgerald is arguably not even the best receiver playing right now, as he’s only ever led the league in receptions once and never led in yards. If there’s a player in the league today with a shot at challenging Rice, it’s Calvin Johnson not Fitzgerald.

Yea ‘Megatron’ has all of the physical attributes of Fitzgerald plus speed. If Stafford can stay healthy over his career he and Johnson could put up some gaudy numbers before they retire.

Bill_Dungsroman · 2012-01-02T21:58:58.000Z

PK David Akers secures the record for most single season points scored with a touchdown pass!

JonRowe · 2012-01-02T22:07:49.000Z

Shadarr:

That’s beside the point. Fitzgerald had a good QB and a dynamite offense for several seasons and those seasons never approached the level of Rice’s best seasons. And like I said, he only led the league in receptions once and has never led in yards. He could’ve played his whole career with Warner and he still wouldn’t be in Rice’s class.

because those several seasons were enough to build rapport. The facts are, we probably will never know. Rice has the better stats, and that is what proves it. 2 players will never have an equal situation, so all we can do is think “what if”

mkozlows · 2012-01-02T23:15:29.000Z

Jon Rowe:

because those several seasons were enough to build rapport. The facts are, we probably will never know. Rice has the better stats, and that is what proves it. 2 players will never have an equal situation, so all we can do is think “what if”

Or you can look at the fact that lots and lots of receivers have been longtime targets of HOF QBs, and none of them even come close to Jerry Rice. Seriously, Jerry Rice as the greatest WR of all time isn’t even a debateable proposition. There is no real alternative.

Shadarr · 2012-01-03T00:26:33.000Z

Jon Rowe:

because those several seasons were enough to build rapport. The facts are, we probably will never know. Rice has the better stats, and that is what proves it. 2 players will never have an equal situation, so all we can do is think “what if”

Now you’re just making excuses. How long do you think it takes to build “rapport”? Jerry Rice had 1570 yards and 15 touchdowns in his second year in the league. In his third season he had 22 touchdowns. Calvin Johnson had 1,681 yards and 16 touchdowns this year. It’s Stafford’s third year in the league and first as a 16-game starter.

Face it, Fitzgerald makes some highlight-reel catches but he is not the best receiver in the game today, and nowhere close to the best of all-time. And as far as “players will never have an equal situation”, Jerry Rice did what he did in a time when the rules were far less favourable to receivers. There was no penalty for hitting a defenseless receiver or targeting the head, and DBs could get away with a hell of a lot more contact without being called for pass interference. Look around the league at all the passing records that were shattered this year and in recent seasons. In spite of how much the rules have been changed to make it easier to pass the ball, Fitzgerald is still nowhere close to Rice. Because he is not in the same class.

Hammet · 2012-01-03T05:31:44.000Z

Comparing Fitzgerald to Rice is of course a fun discussion, if only to let your mind boggle over what a career Rice had. I happen to think that not only was he the greatest receiver of all time, he’s in the running for the greatest player, ever. I actually think he is.