Sorry to pollute P&R with football…
I started out impressed by Kaepernick - rocket for an arm and as fast as anyone in the league. But once defenses adjusted to the read-option, he proved to be totally incapable of learning to read pass defenses. If the primary option is not open, he is totally clueless. His last dozen or so games made Brandon Weeden look like a pretty good option. Weeden’s 2015 QBR 59; Kaepernick’s 43.
No because it’s not the form, it’s that those people dare say anything to the white man.
Proof: Literally every form of protest ever adopted by a black man ever.
A previous employer of mine did the pledge of allegiance at the start of all-hands communications meetings. There was very, very strong social pressure to stand and recite. Those of us who stayed silent were not popular for it. I’m not aware of any legal action having been taken.
If those of you who were silent were fired for it, I suspect it would be a different story. Which is basically the position being presented: that “protesting at work” wouldn’t be tolerated anywhere else. Except, as you said, it was. You didn’t get fired for your “protest”.
I honestly don’t know if any overt action was taken against anyone. I “only” received social pressure, personally. I agree that firing for non-participation would have escalated things massively. I merely offer the anecdote as a reference that there are companies which have as standard procedure participation in nationalist behaviours.
In the modern context I suppose my actions could be taken to be a form of protest. I didn’t think of it in those terms at the time at all. I just looked around the room and saw many co-workers who were not American citizens and didn’t feel comfortable participating in a ritual which excluded them so starkly.
All dissent is a form of protest at the end of the day, which is why we have an Amendment to protect it.
Agreed. There are plenty of teams desperate for help at QB
But this is bullshit, and its most certainly not universally accepted.
There are a ton of people who fully realize that this is not about disrespecting the flag or the anthem or soldiers.
I’m not about to allow an imbecile like Trump to just dictate the terms of the discussion by fucking lying about it. Fuck him, and fuck his idiot supporters who desecrate the flag on a daily basis by draping flag moo-moo’s over their putrid whale corpse bodies.
Making flags into clothing is a straight up violation of the actual flag code. Refusing to stand for the anthem is not.
The problem is that people are stupid. Anyone who says those who sit/kneel/etc are disrespecting the flag and should stand are themselves disrespecting the constitution and our country by trying to inhibit others from their right to peaceably protest. It is these freedoms that make our country what it is and they are being threatened.
Our facts and logic are all well and good, but not to folks who want to use this convenient loophole to be racist.
I don’t think so. A lot of states are Employment At Will, which means they can fire you for anything. Even it’s for an outrageously illegal reason – for sexist/racist reasons – they color it by “eliminating the position.” Where I was going with this is, what would happen if an employee stood on public property in front of their workplace with a protest sign for whatever? Probably nothing good for the employee. NFL contracts are especially tricky since little about is guaranteed and the player can be released at will,
I agree. But most of us in this forum are the ones who agree with the protests, so we aren’t the target audience here.
This is a version of the “I know pornography when I see it” argument. Wearing the flag is patriotic. Not standing during the anthem isn’t. No amount of arguing is going to change this.
But you’re stating the uninformed opinion of idiots as though it were fact.
It’s not fact.
I agree. But we can’t change this perception. Protesting during the anthem I think was ill-advised from the beginning, though. It just invited these sorts of discussions that have nothing to do with the reasons they are protesting. I don’t know what a better venue would be. I don’t have the answers. The original message is now obfuscated with the current narrative.
I suppose military gets a pass here? We stood at attention and saluted even.
And I think this is the problem we have here. Too much intertwining of military operation and tradition over a civilian game and establishment. The anthem has zero to do about football, nor does the flag. For the President or others to say things like it demeans the game or demeans our country and flag are just plain ridiculous.
The NFL partially brought this on themselves with the active participation and grooming of the military for game events via flybys, flag presentations, military flag corps, and even halftime events.
Well, with the military, you could conceivably get sacked for disobeying any order at all, right? (Unless the order itself were unlawful)
I wonder why we’re not seeing much in the way of NFL players undertaking a different kind of protest? It seems to me that it would be one way to calm the (ridiculous) controversy. Move your protest stance to some other part of the pre-game ritual, or outside the game entirely. What if someone like Richard Sherman or Cam Newton set up a press conference, on their own time, to discuss the issues? Yeah, I’m sure there would be plenty of controversy about that too, but it would at least be a different one, and hopefully address the actual issues.
Semi-related, but I stumbled upon this while looking for the answer:
http://www.9news.com/news/local/next/veteran-uses-us-flag-code-to-defend-nfl-players-kneeling-during-the-national-anthem/478496709
Truth be told, I don’t know what would have actually happened if I purposefully did not stand for the anthem while serving. My guess is the generic, “disobeying an order of the command,” etc.
I’m not sure about Sherman offhand, but Doug Baldwin has absolutely had dialogues/press conferences completely outside of any sort of game-related situation. I believe he went so far as to meet with the governor, iirc.
The best part about Pence leaving the game after the anthem is that his stated reasoning implies that everyone else that stayed for the game is an unpatriotic POS.
Well, that’s very much an exception. Active duty military personnel have different rights and rules than civilians anyway.