The NFL Protests

I believe that Nesrie’s contention before has been that the anthem was hardly the only political thing going on in sports in the US these days, between the municipal tax write-offs, long history of civil rights struggles in getting black players into professional leagues, the enormous financial-political influence of most billionaire team owners, etc. Hell, if that’s not what Nesrie was talking about (though I’m pretty sure it was), then consider me now officially talking about it :)

I’m not sure there are many parts of life where politics doesn’t factor in, but it feels pretty disingenuous to claim that sports is one of them.

How?

Is patriotism inherently political? Why?

I do not disagree the anthem and patriotism can be used for political ends by the way, I just disagree that the mere existence of an anthem is political by definition.

I am genuinely unsure if that is a sarcastic question.

By that definition aren’t elementary schools and shopping malls political?

Yes.5

Not to mention the tradition of championship teams visiting the white house, the distorting effect that stadiums have on local governments and taxes, how owners often can be big campaign boosters, how the players associations are one of the more visible unions and represent the political struggle of labor for many.

Yeah standing for the anthem at the behest of the armed services, with jet flyby and color guards on field, in the wake of 9/11? It’s absolutely fucking political. It was trying to increase support for the Iraq War.

Not meant to be sarcastic. I do think you can be patriotic without being a political animal. Your love of country doesn’t necessarily make you political one way or the other.

I suppose it is the partisan aspects of something being political that I am questioning. If everything is political then how can it be inherently good or bad? It is the partisan use of that that is good or bad.

The NFL was also paid by the US to do those things. So again perhaps a poor move by the NFL.

Exactly. When they took money to do these things, public money to garner political support, the NFL was inherently making a political action. Ergo they are forcing players to participate in political speech.

So, yeah, it was a dumb move by the NFL to begin with.

I mean I did mention those things, Craig :P

But yes!

I am very much of the opinion that patriotism or lack thereof is inherently political; at the very least geopolitical. Obviously moreso when it veers into nationalism, but love of country is tied up in all sorts of political stuff. I’m not sure it’s inherently dangerous (though I kind of suspect it might be), but it’s certainly political from my viewpoint, which I’d do a better job expanding upon if i wasn’t administrating a webinar :)

I don’t think that something being political is good or bad, it’s just a fact of life for most stuff.

I do think that being able to ignore the political elements of “everyday” stuff like driving around without being under constant threat of being pulled over for the color of your skin, or waking up without a pit of shuddering fear eating away at your gut because you can’t afford insurance, or generally just existing in a country that isn’t being torn apart by American drone bombs 24/7 can make having the deeply political ramifications of almost every part of our very easy lives shoved in our faces uncomfortable, but I don’t consider it good or bad.

When AT&T gives money to Trump are they forcing their employees to do anything.

Is respecting the anthem (and look, I am far from the most patriotic of people) something people should be forced to do? Is protesting the anthem at work something employees should do?

You sure you don’t want to add anything else? :)

This is so much more exciting than the stipend payment process we’re about to outline to our new cohort, trust me.

Just imagine what life was like before the internet was in every office.

Hellish. Thank god for the billions of dollars in tax breaks that the American people gave to Verizon and co. to expand broadband into rural areas that they. . . oh, wait. POLITICS AGAIN, DAMMIT.

why is the anthem even played at sporting events?

You can’t force people to respect the nation, the government, or the national anthem. You can only require them to put on visuals. It used to be, when we saw that, in other countries on TV, we recognized it for what it was. Now we’re lining up to be just like them and hand-waving away the concerns.

And the kneeling, was absolutely an attempt to be more respectful and look at the results of that… people are so pissed off about things they don’t understand that they don’t even remember how it started.

To even suggest that in the private sector it would be ordinary for most bosses to walk into a room and tell their employees to stand-up and listen to the national anthem, and pose in only the way they deem is acceptable… that’s not even close to reality.

They should really just drop all pretense and play some Team America shit y’all.

If burning a flag or sitting during the anthem are political, then so is paying respect to the flag or the anthem.

As for elementary schools, the SCOTUS has been there and done that. Children cannot be forced to recite the Pledge of Allegiance or salute the flag.

If there is any fixed star in our constitutional constellation, it is that no official, high or petty, can prescribe what shall be orthodox in politics, nationalism, religion, or other matters of opinion or force citizens to confess by word or act their faith therein. If there are any circumstances which permit an exception, they do not now occur to us.