You don’t understand Chinese Nationalism and Chinese racism. They dislike, and in many cases despise nearly all nationalities that aren’t… them. This goes for Koreans as well. You’d be surprised to find there is no road to citizenship for nearly anyone that’s not a multi-millionaire. Had a friend who went there 15 years ago to teach ESL. Married a Chinese girl and saw her through medical school. She’s a doctor and they have a daughter, and he will never be granted Chinese citizenship.
He’s now suffering from ironic racism. Since they feel they don’t need the likes of people like him as much any more, the men hate him for “stealing one of their Chinese women”. Even his in-laws make nasty comments about foreigners like him when they don’t think he’s within earshot.
Racism and neo-Nationalism is a disease that needs to end in all countries.
Oops almost forgot to mention why I responded - Chinese citizens would be pissed if they absorbed or had anything more to do with the North Koreans. It would be diluting their nation.
Maybe. It’s hard to read what’s going on in Beijing or Pyongyang, not the least because traditionally our HUMINT assets in Asia have been, um, less than voluminous or reliable. And of course we gutted most of our Chinese expertise back in the forties and fifties, and spent the next four decades focused laser-like on the USSR.
I’m skeptical though about the PRC and DPRK being ‘close.’ It has generally been a marriage or cohabitation at least of convenience. Even in 1950, there was considerable debate within the PRC leadership over whether to aid the North Koreans in the war, and the dismal performance of Kim Il-sung’s forces once the UN got its act together certainly did not impress the Chinese. And during the de-Stalinization era, Pyongyang not only refused to get with the program, but pretty much slammed Mao and Moscow alike, again not making many friends. The reason Beijing supports North Korea is as you note, security related in a variety of dimensions, and there’s little sentiment involved at this point. I do agree that neither of the two parties has any incentive to be seen to acquiesce in anything the USA wants at this point, but I don’t really think that means there is a coincidence of views.
My guess is that, in the long term, the pressures of a globalized economy will ultimately force the Chinese into choosing global trade relationships or North Korea. And the North Koreans will lose that one.
Oh, they still don’t like each other, but Trump has forced them together. They have a common enemy at the moment. I don’t expect it will last by any means though.
That’s always been the theory, but I think the leadership is pretty committed on that point. Now that doesn’t mean they wouldn’t but supportive of someone else running North Korea for them.
Well, that’s the real hope. I have always said, give the Kim dynasty some dachas on the Black Sea or the Chinese equivalent, let them revel in all the VSOP, Cuban cigars, hookers, and blow they want, and replace them with something akin to a PRC-style nominally “Communist” bunch of bureaucrats who could reform, slowly, the country, demilitarize much of it, and eventually work out an insulated trading zone thing with the South.
Truman I think once said that nothing is impossible if you don’t care who gets the credit. With Korea, I results are more important than chest thumping or pride. Hell, the armistice itself resulted from Eisenhower being politically able to give a hell of a lot more in concessions to the Chinese than Truman every could. We wanted that war ended, and today, no one excoriates Ike for it.
Don’t forget a little extra bit. There are up to 100,000 North Koreans working in Chinese factories and fisheries. They make very little personally as the bulk of their pay goes to Kim. They are there on “lease” so I’m not sure what you’d call it. Seeing how they’re lorded over by a DPRK or factory rep it almost seems like a form of prison labor, but maybe one they prefer over not living in DPRK for a few years.
It’s a tenuous thing and a lot of Chinese resent them “taking our jobs”. But factory managers/owners like them as they’re cheap and none of the newer Chinese labor regulations apply to them.
Frankly, the way that expats generally behave in these countries, I am not surprised. I have seen so many caucasians from various countries have a superiority complex and behave terribly within the various Chinese or Asian countries that it is understandable. I have had a number of British and Americans tell me how the Chinese women are “easy” and “every Asian chick wants a white dick”, that a lot of this ill-feeling for whites isn’t just cultural. If it adds context, they laugh when they tell me this and how they can bring a different woman home every night - and I’m not white.
Even your story can very easily be read as “see how these parents don’t appreciate how a white guy came and saved their daughter from poverty!”. It’s a very sensitive issue and I don’t imagine you get much input of the perspective of the locals, and write it off as “oh stupid racist Chinese”.
I get plenty of feedback from my Chinese wife, and the locals in her hometown who very rarely see any foreigners, and that is yes, they’re completely racist. The hotels in town have signs that say No Foreigners, I can’t wave down a taxi, etc. It’s an extremely insular country.
After the meeting between Kim and Xi, anyone else get the feeling that the US is going to wind up pulling out of South Korea with a promise from the North to eliminate their nuclear program and the WH calling this a huge win?
In the post-2016 world you can’t be sure of anything, but if a deal happens, it would presumably include South Korea. The party currently in power there likes to complain about the US, but they’re pragmatic enough that they wouldn’t want all American troops pulled out. But yeah, I expect if any deal is made it’s going to mean Trump giving concessions in exchange for nothing tangible.
To quote me, yes. A couple of NK experts were on the Newshour the other night and they emphasized the de-nuclearization of the Korean Penisula has a very different meaning to NK than it does to the US. The phrase means to North Korea, after US troops have been withdrawn, and defense treaty between SK and the US is gone, then Kim will consider getting rid of his nuclear weapons. The odds that Trump understands this are vanishingly small. I think South Korea role will be similar to South Vietnam’s role in negotiating the end of the Vietnam war.
Ahead of a summit next week between North Korean premier Kim Jong Un and South Korean President Moon Jae-in, lawmakers from the neighboring states were thought to be negotiating the details of a joint statement that could outline an end to the confrontation.
Kim and Moon could also discuss returning the heavily-fortified demilitarized zone separating them to its original state, the newspaper said.
Maybe it’s a NorKor trick, maybe they’re at 800% war exhaustion and this is the only way for the Kim family to stay in power, maybe it’s not exactly in American interests for the war to end, but despite all that, I think peace is a positive thing and I hope these guys can bury the hatchet. Domino theory or not.
