The official Qt3 Neverwinter Nights letdown thread

Not only is there a level cap of 20, but the xp needed to level is considerably lower than it was in 2nd edition. Since I’m an utter nerd and happen to have both my 2nd and 3rd ed Player Handbooks near my desk, I’ll give you an example:

2nd ed:
10th lvl fighter: 500,000 xp
10th lvl wizard: 250,000 xp
10th lvl cleric: 450.000 xp

3rd ed:
All classes: 45,000 xp

So 200 xp isn’t as crappy a reward as it seems in comparison to, say BG or BG2, since it only takes 10% as much xp to hit the same level.

Fair enough…But it still strikes me as odd that I get more experience for killing a wizard (I’ve had some kills that rang in around 350 XP, and they weren’t even creatures that I had to take in to find the cure) or half-orc fighter than I get for completing 1/4 of the first chapter. (Okay, 1/5 I guess.)

I’ve noticed that Xp seems to scale depending upon your character’s level. Anyone else see this?

For instance, I had a Level 10 Paladin who killed a Troll, and got something like 55Xp for each Troll kill. As soon Paladin hit Level 11, Troll kills went down to 38Xp.

There’s something in the manual about Monster ratings, like if you encounter a monster who is five star-challenge to your level, it means RUN LIKE HELL. But if you managed to somehow kill that monster, I imagine the Xp would be like manna from heaven. But if your character encounters a monster that’s like a one star-challenge to your level, you get peanuts for the kill.

I’ve seen that too, it really tends to be evident when you’re playing multiplayer and your character is a level or two higher than the other characters. The thing is, sometimes you’ll get MORE exp from a particular monster than the other characters will, so I’m not sure exactly what it’s tied to.

Wait, I thought Wumpus was Captain Oblivious … ;)

– Xaroc

Warning, long post! (i.e., This thread is now officially dead since it takes more than five seconds to read. Thank you and good night!)

NWN has taken quite a bit of getting used to, and all of it I freely admit comes from my wanting-it-to-be-Balder’s Gate 3 bias.

Over time, though, you start to accept the game as it was intended and it gets pretty addictive. So far, I’ve found the game challenging, regardless of whatever class I’ve played and have had fun trying to figure out which combination works best. “What kills creature x faster?” has always had an appeal for me. That’s why I don’t care so much whether the game uses the 2nd Edition rules or the new 3rd Edition; for me, the hook is figuring them out and still not break the game to where it’s too easy. And while the story so far doesn’t seem as epic or grand as the Baldur’s Gate series, I don’t think it’s from a lack of effort…it just seems that this engine doesn’t somehow convey the same impact. Probably an unfair BG bias again on my part, but I’m sufficiently intrigued enough for now. If anything, I suspect things are moving too slow for my tastes.

What is not working is the single player/multiplayer campaign convergence and how the game suffers for not excelling in either. Given that the game seems effort intensive, I was hoping to go back and forth between my sp campaign and dabble in some mp with my friends, using the same character. The manual even says there’s an “import” feature. Wrong. After the manual was written, Bioware evidently thought an import button wasn’t necessary since you could accomplish the same thing through different but not necessarily much more complicated means (as per a Bioware programmer). Wrong again. The “workaround” suggested by the programmer currently breaks your henchmen, and the steps involved are a major pain in the ass. I can only assume they’ll fix it, but I think this is one aspect they didn’t pay enough attention to. After all, such a practice was common with the BG series as long as you played your single player game in multiplayer mode and the coming of NWN was supposed to do away with that.

Another thing about multiplayer is that it’s much easier to hack your character with the included toolset and debug mode. Which means going on any server with localvault characters is just plain nuts. So unless you can find a favorite server out there that stores the characters for you, it gets out of hand. To be expected, sure, but such servers will often be full due to quality and popularity, so it won’t be convenient. And just how are these “portals” supposed to work? If your character is stored on one server and thus “legal,” will the scripting allow his/her stats and equipment, etc., to jump on over to the next one and thus equally legal and safe on the new server? I haven’t seen an example of this yet, but I remember this being a big bullet item on NWN’s feature set. It’s almost as if you’re asking The People to run a type of MMORPG environment for you. This smacks of being a little too Utopian for me given the kind of issues a dedicated MMORPG company like Verant or Mythic face.

Yeah yeah, the game has just been released and given time, much of this will hopefully be worked out. Don’t know why I’m disappointed at how much doesn’t work since it was obviously released to make a fiscal deadline (anyone know if Ubi’s fiscal year ended yesterday?). I guess I’m skeptical the game will ultimately function as seemlessly as I hoped.

This much is clear: NWN is a true DnD 3E game if played in an appropriate manner. If you can find other players you trust and have a competent DM, then it looks like it’s possible to have a computer gaming experience like no other. So why do I feel this would require everyone sitting around a table with laptops instead of surfing at home, trying to find a good NWN session through Gamespy?

Hmm, catching up on the other NWN posts and I think I posted this to the wrong thread.

Oops. :shock:

There are just a host of issues with the mutliplayer game, especially if it’s important to you that you play with other players who haven’t hacked characters.

I really think most of the long-term activity with NWN will be with people making mods that are like small, standalone games for individual players.

I agree. Also, I just want to point out this quote from the newest issue of Computer Gaming World, which has a “NWN hands-on preview” slash first impressions article, like Jeff Green said in another thread. Good job, Jeff Green. Anyway:

Emphasis mine. So I hope this settles that question once and for all.

NWN’s multiplayer has its share of problems, some technical, some not. Many are shared with other games.

But FWIW, Diablo II is the only RPG with a better online component (and a MUCH worse offline component, but that’s neither here nor there). And I’m already having a really good time checking out the player-made content with NWN.

I played a bit this weekend on a “persistant world” server, where you make a new character when you first join and it’s stored on the server vault. It was rather fun. There were 12-18 people on at a time, grouping up in parties of 4 or so, using the “emote” animations and stuff and exploring the countryside. The module design needed some serious tweaking, but I still had a great time. It was called Fort Braveheart if any of you are interested in checking it out.

They’ve got a few issues to work out with stability and network performance on their server software, but I’ve seen far worse.

“I really think most of the long-term activity with NWN will be with people making mods that are like small, standalone games for individual players.”

I agree with this Mark. Hopefully the game will really catch the imaginations of a lot of dedicated people. The multiplayer will live on in isolated (but plentiful?) groups, but the mass market will probably be clever single player modules.

From Jeff Green in CGW via Legolas:

“BioWare will tell you that it had plans for a big solo campaign from the start, but in the early days, NWN was about its DM tools and online play, not its single-player campaign.”

As I recall, the original plan was for 20 or so small modules that you could play in 2-3 hours each solo (or multiplayer) that would link up to tell a story. BioWare orginally was selling the multiplayer/DM aspect hard, and the single player was more like a toss-in. Well, “toss-in” sounds more harsh than I mean, but the single player stuff definitely wasn’t the main focus.

That BioWare shifted their focus and produced a strong single player game is to their credit, but it makes me wonder if that shift was the result of BioWare’s realization that the DMing stuff probably was going to fall short of the PNP experience?

“I played a bit this weekend on a “persistant world” server, where you make a new character when you first join and it’s stored on the server vault. It was rather fun.”

I think there’s some promise along these lines too. I could see dedicated NWN MMOG servers with a player population of several hundred and lots of fun could ensue. There are a few limitations, though:

  1. Lag. The net code needs some work if the game is really going to support 64 players online at once.

  2. The level limit of 20. You can hit that in a month of play, and then what do you do? It’s almost like you’d need some combination of perma-death and realm vs. realm combat to keep the interest up.

  3. An interesting world to play in. I think this will take an enormous amount of work. It’s certainly not trivial. It will take a dedicated group of fans to build such a world.

  1. Is it the net code or too many people trying to run servers on below spec machines and 56K modems? I had this happen allot.

  2. Why? It could be a similar setup to Diablo II for its attraction. People make many diffrent chars and try out diffrent classes and styles within the classes, using the 3E rules of skills and feats.

  3. Yes it will.

>The level limit of 20. You can hit that in a month of play, and then what do you do? It’s almost like you’d need some combination of perma-death and realm vs. realm combat to keep the interest up.

Unfortunately, 20 is it right now for 3rd Edition rules, although BioWare could create its own extrapolations for higher levels like it did for BG2TOB. Wizards has an “epic” level expansion in the works, but it makes radical changes that would be difficult to encompass within the NWN engine.

“1) Is it the net code or too many people trying to run servers on below spec machines and 56K modems? I had this happen allot.”

No idea. I only joined low ping games. Is there further information available I can view before I join a game?

“2) Why? It could be a similar setup to Diablo II for its attraction. People make many diffrent chars and try out diffrent classes and styles within the classes, using the 3E rules of skills and feats.”

Yeah, there will be some of that. I think the long-term attraction of Diablo 2 was the leveling and item collection. It’s not easy hitting the really high levels in D2.

Its was easier early on but so may people were getting there that Blizzard nerfed the exp you get allot to make leveling up at higher lvls ridiculous.

15 year necro, bitches!

It’s unclear what’s “enhanced” about it. The game looks abso-frickin-lutely identical to me. Textures are the same resolution, UI looks the same… no changes whatsoever. And the original NWN will run in 1080p no problem. I guess they scale the UI better to higher resolutions?

Baldur’s Gate and its posse were 2D games so they still look great, but NWN is a 3D game and thus looks like complete shit in 2017. You can’t just literally rerelease a fifteen year old 3D game with a couple tweaks and get anyone interested in rebuying it when again, the original runs just fine. Look at the screenshots. It’s laughably ugly.

Beamdog needs a new schtick.

I don’t want to hate on them since they’re a local developer and ex-Bioware but I don’t think they’re very good at modern games. I bought MDK + MDK 2 from them for their failed at launching a whole platform to compete with Steam and this doesn’t look much better.

Also their digital deluxe edition, which costs twice as much at $40, includes a bunch of original Bioware “premium modules” which have been available to download for free for the better part of a decade.

https://neverwintervault.org/project/nwn1/module/bioware-premium-modules