To be sure, Bernie’s not (usually) a dues-paying member of the DNC, doesn’t do any of their fund-raising stuff and doesn’t tend to endorse their candidates down at the lower levels (though he does sometimes). He loves to tout his Indie status and his “outsider” street-cred.
But I’m not certain that really matters in the grand scheme of things. He caucuses with the Democrats, he votes the party line 94% of the time. He’s not like Lieberman who was both an Independent and and unreliable partner for both parties. When pundits and vote-counters try and figure out where the lines are drawn in the Senate, Sanders is NOT an unknown quantity; he’s pretty much in the center of the Dem pack.
But Sanders is also the most far left guy in the whole Senate. He doesn’t really represent the views of most Democrats, I don’t think.
He is effectively the far left’s version of the freedom caucus. He’s perhaps more competent in terms of how governing works, but he still holds fairly extreme ideas.
This part made me laugh. Only in the United States could a statement like that be true, so perhaps best to qualify it that way. Extreme ideas? In Canada, Bernie would be considered as fairly centrist, left on some items, right on others.
His “views” might not, but his voting record certainly does align with mainstream Democrat platforms and tends to be fairly pragmatic. The National Review tends to rate him in the middle of the pack in terms of “liberal/progressive”. In 2013 he was rated the 37th most liberal Senator (in 2011 he was 29th).
Come on dude, it’s true. The fact that he agrees with YOU doesn’t mean that he represents mainstream ideas. YOU hold views that are on the extreme left of the American political spectrum.
I’m not passing any judgement on those beliefs with this statement. I’m not saying they are equivalent to the freedom caucus in terms of pure nonsense level, although most of his budget planning numbers were most certainly nonsense on their face.
If you want to achieve political gains, you need to recognize this reality, and not just pretend that everyone shares your far left views. In order to achieve some of your desired ends, you need to compromise with less extreme views to get enough support to pass some things.
Bernie suggests lots of really great sounding things… all kinds of free stuff for everyone. But these types of things will absolutely require a ton of stuff that folks are going to hate. Namely, massive increases in their taxes. That’s just a fact. There’s no way around it.
Yes, I was operating with the assumption that we were talking about the US. Certainly his ideas aren’t extreme for many other countries.
The Vichy Left does not represent the views of anyone but Republicans for whom their natural party is just a little too racist or anti science or what have you. The fact that Bernie is generally to the left of the Surrender Caucus does not make him an extremist.
Sanders is a New Deal Democrat, nothing more (VT doesn’t require party registration, so he doesn’t.)
There really isn’t a (viable) far left in this country.
These guys are far left: https://www.jacobinmag.com/
Sanders isn’t advocating state control of private industry or any significant rollback of (late stage) capitalistic systems.
Poll his individual policy positions and they would most likely receive majority support.
(Whether or not his numbers are correct is a different matter, but that said, none of the things he advocates are beyond the means of the US economy. )
Do those polls and actually include an explanation of how to PAY for those ideas, and see how many agree with it.
That’s what I said in my post… there’s lots of support for the “I get free stuff!” side of Sanders’ ideas. There’s way LESS support for the shit that actually pays for it, like dramatic increases in taxation.
I’ve always wondered why it was ok for rich people to push the “I get free stuff” thing via politics (read: bribing politicians to drop their taxes, remove common sense regulations that negatively impact their profits and write laws specifically for their advantage) but the second any of the lower order talks about getting a bit for themselves, it is met with cries of socialism and “you just want free stuff.”
Look at how much money republicans want to spend increasing the militiary (oh look, a bunch of defense contractors are buddy buddy with the republican party…) or for Trump Family vacations or for tax cuts for the rich and tell me there is no money for programs to help our own people even a little. I’m not saying that we need to offer free university or free health care or whatever (nor am i saying i dont think the government should have a bigger part in those things), but give me a break here.
Man, it’s like I have to do all the googling here.
It’s time to change your mind about what left and right look like, Timex. If those are “far left” issues, then what does a middle right issue look like.
You aren’t going to be able to pay for Sanders’ ideas by just raising taxes on the rich.
Sure, there’s tons of support for raising taxes on OTHER folks. Ask them if they want to raise their OWN taxes.
The other issues you’re citing are just normal Democratic positions. And sure, Bernie obviously overlaps with the democratic position rather than the GOP side. What makes him extreme is the stuff that goes beyond those positions.
I mean, the freedom caucus overlaps the moderate GOP on tons of stuff too… what makes them extreme is the stuff that doesn’t.
Do you know how I know Bernie is too far left… he didn’t win.
I mean seriously. We can argue in circles all day long but the voting Democrat population heard his ideas, listened to his pitches, had opportunity to see an actual plan with dollars and everything and… rejected it. They’ll probably be debates until our bones are dust in the ground on whether or not he could have won the general over Trump but the fact is the voting Democrats had a chance and did not chose him. And despite all of that. Bernie is not a Democrat. Yes it matters that he’s not a part of the party when we’re talking about the party. If it didn’t matter why isn’t he a member of the party, why does he keep pointing out he’s an independent? It clearly matters tjo him too. The voting population is free to do the same thing, go independent if you don’t like the parties but don’t pretend like you then have some sort of right to control a party you’re not a part of.
Please note that just because you don’t have rights within a party because you’re not a member of that party does not mean a person cannot be heard. That’s different. Listening to Bernie and other independents is something BOTH parties should do. That doesn’t make them members of the party though.
Like I said, when you actually consider the full implications of something like full government paid for healthcare, it becomes that.
I’m not sure what part of this is so hard to grasp… when folks are asked, “Do you want free healthcare?” folks say “Yes!” When you ask “Do you want to have your taxes jacked way up to pay for it?” they say, “No!”
So I guess the fantasy view of it, where the math doesn’t actually work, is mainstream? But the plan that would actually be implemented isn’t. It’s a lot like the view that many folks had regarding the ACA… You ask them if they like the ACA, and folks say yes… you ask them if they like the individual mandate? They hated it. But it was a critical part for making the system actually work.
Ah, we’ve reached that stage of the thread. Excellent. Someone DM me or something when all the strawmen have been dragged out behind the shiny new goalposts and lit on fire.
