The Russia is getting more evil thread

[abrandt]

No, see, the straight lines are so they can shoot their anti-tank rockets at all the armor that has broken through into the trench.

[abrandt]

In all seriousness, I’ve started and deleted a few posts trying to make exactly this same point. Even if the Russians are building enough depth to their trenchlines(I’ve seen a couple that at least seem to have a second partial line half a mile back?) do they have enough men and equipment to sufficiently man it and then be able to concentrate anti-tank weaponry at the site of any initial breakthroughs? As our good friend Janster has pointed out repeatedly, it’s a big front to spread all of that defense over.

[KevinC]

@Mark_Weston

But by the end of WW1 the problem of breaking through trench-lines had been solved by both sides, and they didn’t have the luxury of drones or artillery that was accurate within 4m.

They did have a lot more bodies to throw at it though! Poor bastards.

I didn’t realize Russia was derping their way through trench building although I can’t say I’m surprised at all. Thanks for the info!

[Mark_Weston]

Yeah. There must be many Russian officers who know these things. So the fact that this is happening in the way it is, is a pretty resource-intensive sign that Russia is still prioritizing appearances over military necessity.

[TheWombat]

I mean, the art of building field fortifications like trenches is not exactly a dark art. It’s been a well-known and taught part of military training for a century or more. People have gotten really, really good at digging in effectively. Combat Engineers have their own specialized vehicles and cool machines for digging fancy holes. The science of how to dig in to provide the best protection possible given the terrain is a well-established field of knowledge.

[Mark_Weston]

@TheWombat

I mean, the art of building field fortifications like trenches is not exactly a dark art. It’s been a well-known and taught part of military training for a century or more.

Right. And instead of consulting their own people who must know these things, they’ve paid a contractor to build something that looks nice on TV and is almost certainly just another opportunity for corruption. I’ve seen pictures on Twitter that claim to show that the “dragons teeth” are made in the cheapest way possible and already crumbling from frost damage.

[KevinC]

@TheWombat

It’s been a well-known and taught part of military training

I think I found the problem.

[Woolen_Horde]

Meanwhile, Germany finally buying some F-35s

Germany approves 10 bln euro F-35 jet deal with U.S.

[abrandt]

I don’t have a subscription to The Economist to read the whole thing, but the excerpts of this interview with Valery Zaluzhny are really interesting. He even references a million more Russians! As a hypothetical, but I’m sure it’s all certain people need to see. To be fair to “certain people”, the general predicts a lot from Russia over the coming months, including another stab at Kyiv.

Ukraine Situation Report: Kyiv Expects Major Russian Offensive In The New Year

[Grifman]

An interesting thread on the importance of Bakhmut to both sides:

John Helin

[Grifman]

Excerpts from a sobering interview with commander of the UA:

Andrew S. Weiss

Interview here:

The Economist

[Grifman]

Russia - it’s now legal to commit war crimes:

Ukrainska Pravda in English

[TheWombat]

And this is in many ways the crux of the matter, I think. Russia is taking the central dilemma of the nuclear age–how to maintain a law-based and stable international order in the face of nations with the capability to eradicate any foe–and pushing it right in the world’s face. No one wants to call Russia on stuff like this because effectively no one can do anything about it short of literally risking nuclear annihilation. Yet if no one pushes back, we effectively say might makes right, and give up any shred of moral high ground we (the rest of the world I suppose) might ever have had.

Yes, the US has arguably behaved horribly in more than a few contexts, but we have also never outright rejected the basic tenets of international consensus on things like war crimes, and have never threatened nuclear war against anyone trying to prosecute or work against what we were doing. Even if we were mendacious and cynical in our approach to international norms and so-called laws sometimes, we never rejected the framework, even under W.

Here we have Russia telling the world that in their eyes there is nothing off limits if they decide it’s necessary. If any nation needed any more proof that Putin’s regime deserves only opposition and certainly no support, here it is. Sadly, I can’t bring myself to say that any nation whatsoever not actively opposing Russia is actively complicit with them, because some countries simply don’t have the leeway to act that independently. In the case of nations like India, China, Iran, etc. though, any expressions of support for Russia at this point should be taken as support for, well, war crimes as a legitimate tactic.

[Ginger_Yellow]

Seems like the energy infrastructure was hit really hard today. 50% power loss and interruption to water supplies.

[abrandt]

At this point I almost expect sabotage of the Moscow power grid on the coldest day of winter. And I doubt anyone but Russia will be outraged about that “escalation” when it happens.

[BloodyBattleBrain]

It’s only a warcrime if you lose!

[TheWombat]

Yeah. Here we have a country conducting what even by the standards of open, declared, old-school warfare would be attacks of dubious morality, but which in the context of this undeclared, naked power-grab sort of aggression are hands-down plain and simple state terrorism. At least, that’s an arguable position, and I think the argument is pretty good. Again, though, because of the nuclear problem, reactions are and perhaps have to be muted–despite generations of political leaders swearing up and down that stuff like this would not be tolerated.

I guess everyone thought threats to do stuff like this were just bluffs.

[KevinC]

Link should not have a paywall. It’s a pretty interesting read, a close up look at one of Russia’s elite brigades and how it has fared in the war.

https://wapo.st/3jbm3G8

‘Wiped out’: War in Ukraine has decimated a once feared Russian brigade

Since the Cold War, this Arctic arsenal has been protected by a combat unit considered one of Russia’s most formidable — the 200th Separate Motor Rifle Brigade — until it sent its best fighters and weapons to Ukraine this year and was effectively destroyed.

The 200th was among the first units to plunge into Ukraine on Feb. 24, as part of a fearsome assault on the city of Kharkiv. By May, the unit was staggering back across the Russian border desperate to regroup, according to internal brigade documents reviewed by The Washington Post and to previously undisclosed details provided by Ukrainian and Western military and intelligence officials.

In a war that has been disastrous for much of Russia’s military, the dismemberment of the 200th stands out. It entered the conflict with better training, newer equipment and more experience — including prior combat missions in Ukraine — than most other units. Now, given the magnitude of its losses, one European military official said, it “cannot be considered a fighting force.”

The troops, like others in the invading force, were led to believe they were deploying to take part in drills, according to Ukrainian officials citing accounts of captured 200th soldiers. Only at 3 a.m. on Feb. 24 were they told, “There will be shooting,” an official said.

A convoy of about 100 brigade vehicles began streaming across the border that morning. Photos taken by civilians show one of the unit’s tanks being used to set up a roadblock on the northern outskirts of Kharkiv — an attempt to impose order that soon proved futile.

By day’s end, multiple units of the 200th had been ambushed or attacked, dozens of soldiers killed or wounded, and equipment including tanks and “Grad” mobile rocket launchers destroyed or abandoned on roadsides, according to Ukrainian and Western accounts.

[ShivaX]

@BloodyBattleBrain

It’s only a warcrime if you lose!

Curtis LeMay liked this

[Strollen]

@jpinard

Russian troll farms coordinating with far-right blogs to generate #FakeNews and further Trump’s attack on Mueller. Notice they are not RTs, but sent as original content. Yet, each tweet is identical. This is all cranked out by one Russian operator.

Russia arrests top opposition candidate for President. Gee, sounds like something trump wanted to do

Russia supplying oil to North Korea. Though they claim to not be official Russian government sanctioned ships, considering that nearly all the oil in Russia is part owned or managed by the gov’t or Putin’s “friends”, it is no doubt happening. One wonders if there are underground gas pipelines from Russia to DPRK and they’re saying they’re not supplying them when they’re sending them plenty. The Kim has plenty of personal money, and Russia doesn’t care where it gets money from.

Selling or giving weapons to the Taliban? Sure, why not Russia.

This is the opening post of the thread. While none of these actions are good, and frankly compared to Russian actions in Chechnya, Georgia, Ukraine in 2014, and Syria, aren’t particularly evil. But it is really stunning to see just how much more evil Russia has become. I think one characteristic that Trump and Putin share is there is truly no limit to their depravity, they can always get worse.