Now, he’s not saying he believes that, he’s saying that to many folks in Norway (and elsewhere) before at least 2014 if not 2022, no one really thought much about Ukraine, or had much of a high regard for it. If you think about how American media covered Ukraine, it wasn’t exactly portrayed as a beacon to democracy or anything for the most part.
I do think there is some loss of nuance around the edges when folks post in their second or third language.
Janster
22413
That specific quote is actually from one of our larger newspapers on the subject…
It is basically what people thought before,well 2014…but even then…I mean, nobody really cared about the problems in Donbass…before Russia roared its ugly head.
Timex
22414
Ukraine produced a significant portion of the entire world’s food, dude.
Ah, I see that you are just repeating another’s quote. My mistake
Janster
22415
I knew them for grain production and eh…human trafficking…before 2014. The latter was kinda a big deal and a tragic problem.
Adding this…
He says what I want to convey better…
To quote him
“There is a perception that the Russians are systemically incompetent, Irredeemably corrupt, that their weapons are ineffective and unreliable, and that their forces are incapable of adapting. This narrative is dangerous, both because its inaccurate, and also because it encourages complacency.”
He puts artillery reserves at 10 million rounds, with a production of 3,5 mill a year…
Is it soon okay to have a different opinion here?
Does that track with the volume of Russian artillery fire dropping to 5000 a day average?
Also I don’t think you clearly understood the video you linked. Again it says things different from what you are implying.
Janster
22420
I think you have to clarify…
Also, I should have used quotation marks around that backwater statement, its basically a statement from our newspapers on the subject of the general opinion of Ukraine before all this, dialed to 11 I guess.
Dave47
22421
C’mon, stop making excuses. Quotation marks are not unique to the English language.
Sure. He is saying that Russia should be taken seriously by international partners because Ukraine needs substantially more aid to launch war winning offensives something everyone in this thread understands very well and the Russia, far from having a ton of manpower is STILL short of infantry and advances only by artillery saturation followed by short pushes, WW1 style. But ultimately, properly supported, Ukraine has the doctrinal advantage.
Janster
22423
I agree with that mostly, however, I fear western help will have to actually up the ante a lot more to contain Russia, they have suffered setbacks before, In the second Chechen war they got quite a bloody nose before they doubled down and did, well what they are doing in Ukraine now.
I don’t think they will be short infantry soon, as you well know my position on, and if they still have as many shells as that german guy implies, they can and appear to be pushing the front again on multiple avenues.
I can’t know for sure, the fog of war in Ukrania is a lot heavier now than it was earlier in the war, particularly Ukranian casualties are not very well known…
I don’t think these kinds of sanctions really had any effect on Russia except for the inconvinience. Let Russians buy a software they’d pirate. Also let them send money to the West in exchange for diamonds, brand bags and such. The last year a lot of capital escaped Russian economy. But it would be much more if not for some sanctions limiting the ability of Russians to transfer money away from Russia.
What’s the new date you project the hordes will arrive by? I’m not saying it’s impossible they will eventually mobilize large numbers but under their current system they can’t seem to do big chunks.
And what avenues outside of the narrow offensive front of bakhmut are they pushing? Even on that front by all accounts their artillery fire has dropped off. Saving for a new offensive? Maybe. But I suspect they are now production and import constrained. Otherwise why use less and less artillery at the one spot on the line that they are actually advancing, if only marginally? Why resort to almost human wave attacks to make progress?
Ukrainian casualties are doubtless heavy, and yet morale seems good by all accounts. So not unbearable.
Naming and shaming (like you’re doing right now) is the only thing that works, although Intel and Microsoft could be too big to care.
There are also companies here that very stupidly agreed to continue doing business in Russia… For the workers, you see? They’re concerned about their workers. It’s not about money at all! /s
I’m obviously never buying their products - Carlsberg brewery was a holdout for a while, that would’ve been very painful - but they also haven’t faced sustained pressure since that initial debacle. The logic of business tends to be “If you can get away with it, do”.
I’d not be so quick to dismiss differences in things like punctuation and emphasis across languages. I tend to give the benefit of the doubt to people using communication modes like this, and to those whose native language isn’t ours. I don’t think @Janster needs defending; they can do that themselves. I just think we should be directing our ire appropriately.
It’s hard to ignore this guy when everyone else is quite deliberately not ignoring this guy. Sigh.
rho21
22429
The UK is sending main battle tanks. That should give the Germans the cover they were after.
morlac
22430
While their production is certainly down their biggest issue is the delivery portion of logistics. The main way via railroad is broken (the bridge hit). That leaves trucks but Ukraine has been blowing those up for about a year now to the tune of 2000K + destroyed. So they are commandeering anything from Vans to school buses and loading them full of ammo and driving down a highway within artillery range to get shit to the front lines :).
It’s going to be fascinating to see how the Ukranians use these 10 Challenger 2 tanks. They have nothing logistically like them in their supply chain. It shares no ammo (apart from perhaps the co-axial mg) with any of their existing kit or indeed the Leopards the Germans might send. It has no motive components in common with any of their kit or the German Leopards and neither does it share any of it’s thermal and sighting components with any of their existing kit or the German Leopards.
I wonder how many spare engines, tracks, thermal sight components and the myriad of other stuff that regularly breaks on tanks is going to be shipped over with them to keep them operational for more than just a few days.
It’s an incredibly capable tank, right up until something breaks on it that the Ukranians can’t replace until it’s shipped in from the UK.
