Russia has already stated its minimum conditions which include the four provinces already “annexed”. What’s the point of talking about a settlement which we know the Russian government won’t accept?
Putin would not accept it.
I don’t think we can say anything all that smart about how to end it. Whatever options and leverage anyone has is still being decided on the battlefield as we speak.
It’s pretty simple, really. As long as Ukraine wants to defend their country, that’s their right, and only they can decide when they don’t want to do that anymore. The free democracies of the world — particularly those in Europe — ought to help them however they reasonably can. If the free democracies of the world don’t want to help them, or want to exact peace terms from them in return for help, that’s just a way of siding with Russia at the expense of Ukraine. If that’s what you’re proposing, then say it clearly, like that.
Right now? No. If the war drags on and is starting to lead to unrest at home . . . maybe. In my opinion it can’t be ruled out as a possible outcome.
I think that even if Russia is ejected from all of Ukraine and Crimea they will stay in a state of war with Ukraine until Putin dies.
Janster
22518
If the war drags on, and the west wants Ukraine to find a peaceful solution, then I don’t think that’s unfair.
This isn’t some Hollywood movie where you walk away with a win, a lot of people are dying and Putin might not loose, in fact i’d say time is on his side.
So, so the narrative is, what could a peaceful solution be, and how do you force the players to the table if need be.
schurem
22519
I am with Scott. These people want to fight, they are in a righteous fight against a heinous, treacherous enemy that presents an existential threat. We are morally obliged to give them any help we can, both material, strategic and financial.
Helping the gogols beat up on the orcs is also in a very real sense a strategic win for all of europe. Let the russians bleed dry on the swamps and steppes of the Donbas and they won’t present much of a threat for decades.
There will be no settlements. And all this weakass talk of “ooh it’s ruining the country”. Yes it is. The fucking russians are wrecking the place, and they need to get fucking pwned to the stone age for that. Leopard 2 to the front! All of 'em! They were built to beat up on russians, so let slip the dogs of war!
Quaro
22520
Just thinking about what Russia would do to suppress dissent if they take over Ukraine is horrifying. I don’t think millions of Ukrainians dead is out of the question.
Grifman
22521
There are reports of an upcoming meeting in Ramstein, Germany among several nations using the Leopard 2. It is anticipated that there will be an agreement on the transfer of Leopards to Ukraine.
KevinC
22522
Yeah. Russia has been engaging in genocide in occupied areas. Surrendering territory isn’t just giving up the land and resources, it’s condemning friends and family in those areas to unspeakable horrors. It’s no wonder that Ukrainians have so much will to fight, even after a year of this terrible war.
If that’s your position, that’s fine, but be honest about it. You are saying it might be beneficial for the rest of Europe to sacrifice Ukraine, give in to aggression, and effectively sanction war crimes and egregious violations of numerous international laws in order to restore a measure of economic security. Which is a logical if repugnant viewpoint, to be sure.
Just don’t position your views as some sort of morally neutral approach. It’s appeasement, capitulation, surrender, and enabling of genocide plain and simple. Or, as we like to say, pure cowardice.
ShivaX
22524
Look, if we just let this guy have the Sudetenland he’ll be happy and we can all stay safe.
Timex
22527
Russia literally cannot ever win this war. Ever. They are guaranteed to lose.
Their “best” case scenario, is that they eventually win a war of attrition with Ukraine, and then enter into sustained counter insurgency operations, forever, into they leave.
So, their best case scenario is for this to be like the US in Iraq or Afghanistan, but if we had also lost tens of thousands of men during the initial conventional warfare period.
They will never get the Ukrainian people to not hate them now. Every Russian in Ukraine is going to have a target on their backs, forever. They will be the targets of all kinds of assassinations and asymmetric combat operations.
And that’s if they actually win the conventional warfare component, which quite frankly, I’m not convinced they can. I’m not convinced they can even win a war of attrition.
ShivaX
22528
Imagine the Battle for Mogadishu only it’s every single day and much, much worse.
Timex
22529
Also, all the people look just like your people.
Oh, and they can drive to your cities and bomb them.
Good luck, Russia.
MikeJ
22530
I don’t think Russia can win if the collective West is willing to send enough equipment and ammo. I shudder to think what the Ukrainian’s think of us if they lost the war for their homes because we were too miserly in our support.
Thrag
22531
More interesting use of drones.
