[quote="ImaTarget”]Providing support, yes, but not tanks, as they are seen as offensive weapons.
[/quote]
Offensive weapons… which are needed for support when the aggressor has taken over your lands. Makes no sense to me. Ukraine has made no overtures for pushing into Russia. They just want their sovereign country’s lands back.
I get that this is hard for others to understand. I don’t believe that, but in general a lot of Germans are absolutely opposed to any offensive military warfare. We have been the absolute opposite of America when it comes to how we as a country see military, weapons, etc. And for good reason. Germany is very slow to change and in some parts stubbornly opposed.
I can see this, sure, in the sense of opposing Iraq 2003, for instance. Or interventions in general. But to frame defending your country against an invasion as “offensive war” because at the operational level your troops are not just sitting there and getting pounded on but are actually trying to take back your own territory–that crosses the line into pure and simple stupidity. Unless you are an absolute philosophical pacifist, and do not believe in any sort of violence even to defend against attack, saying that what Ukraine is doing by trying to push the Russians out is “offensive war” is so dumb it makes annexing the Sudetenland look smart.
Like I said, I don’t agree with it but there are indeed people like that, but are fringe. The bigger worry they claim to have is"what’s stopping them from using these tanks to roll into Russia". To which I say good for them if they do. This is all very stupid and annoying.
Grifman
22796
The dam may be breaking, but I’ll need to see more:
I heard an amazing speech by someone on NPR about this. To briefly summarize: It’s fine to be a person and be a pacifist, but as a nation when the line between aggressor and victim is so incredibly clear, acting as a pacifist nation is an implicit act of violence as it allows violence to continue. Non action is action.
Strollen
22798
Edmund Burke may not have said.“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” and it is not the ONLY thing, but doing nothing really helps evil.
I understand the appeal of this Vietnam era meme, for young people and heavy drug users. However, leaders of big important countries should know better. Punching people is generally bad, but punching Nazis if fine because they are Nazis! Putin’s Russia is close enough to Hitler’s German, that even if the Leopard II are used to take Moscow, it would be a good thing (other than those pesky nuclear weapons).
Exactly. What might work for a Jain priest won’t fly for a nation.
Well, Putin did claim to want a restoration of glory. UA pushing to Moscow would just be following through with that. Restoring the ancient and historical greatness of Kyivan Rus, is what he meant, da?
I’ll take “Thermonuclear weapons” for $400, Alex.
Grifman
22803
More here, Poland could supply a lot:
And the oracle said: if you start this war, a great empire will be restored.
Alstein
22806
Return of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth?
KevinC
22807
In the Washington Post’s update tracker, Norway’s army chief puts the number of Russian casualties at 180,000 now. This was the source (in Norwegian):
NI1
22808
He also estimated more than 100.000 Ukrainian army casualties + 30.000 civilians dead.
What percentage of each side’s casualties are eventually either returned to combat, or at least recuperate and are able to go about their lives outside the military? I’m guessing, based on what I’ve seen, that Ukrainian wounded have a better chance than Russian wounded.
KevinC
22810
Given the disregard for human life the Russian army seems to have, I think that’s probably an accurate assumption.
The rough rubric in my kind is that if you halve the Ukrainian claims of Russian dead you’re in the right ball park, and if you halve that number again that’s about what the Ukrainians have lost.
The normal ratio of dead to wounded historically is 1:3, however America bucks that trend hugely with excellent infantry protection and amazing medevac capabilities. Improbable that Ukraine can match the American way of doing things but good body armour helps too.
