23812

That’s as good an explanation as any. That said, something we’ve seen a lot of work with over the last few years is vast improvements to autonomous activity for what you’d traditionally call torpedoes. They sure don’t behave like the ones you see in movies, but they still launch from a standard 530mm tube. I think the line between ‘drone’ and ‘torpedo’ is thoroughly and irrevocably blurred now. Perhaps the only real defining characteristic left is how many traditional torpedoes have been manufactured/deployed versus the new autonomous stuff.

23813

Can the more drone-ish things kick their speed into high gear to chase down a sub? That could possibly be a difference there. Giving up range for the ability to accelerate.

23814

They were basically just not a great idea… They were wire guided, because I don’t think we had acoustic homing systems yet.

The idea of detonating a nuclear bomb, while you are literally connected to it with a wire, sounds like a bad idea.

23815

That would more traditionally be called a torpedo. See Mk-48 and related variants.

The newer autonomous stuff is generally intended for long-duration autonomous operations. The line here blurs between torpedo, drone, mine, reconnaissance vehicle, etc etc.

23816

Still mk48s with an updated sensor package? It is has been in service since I was 1 I think. :)

23817

There have been very discrete generations of the Mk-48, but for the layman it’s a little tough to tell because the core body hasn’t really changed that much. The dimensions of tubes haven’t changed so while the guts continues to iterate, the shell is essentially constrained by legacy decisions.

One of the weirdest/coolest things is that there’s been a lot of work done on recovery of tube-launched autonomous vehicles. That’s even more challenging than it sounds!

23818

A suicide drone would probably be the equivalent of a cruise missile.

One thing you need to consider with the idea of controlling a subsurface drone, is that it’s not in the air. It’s under water, which makes communicating control commands much harder. You can’t just broadcast radio underwater.

That’s why torpedoes tended to either have a physical wire connected to the shooter to transmit control commands, or they had a self contained guidance system where they would find the target and then guide themselves.

If you have an underwater drone that’s not autonomous, and can be controlled by a human, that would involve some sort of underwater communication mechanism.

I’m not seeing the thing that you guys are taking about… so maybe it is just a torpedo.

23819

Usually what happens in that case is a short tether to the surface. Subsea wireless communication is incredibly bandwidth limited.

23820

In that all suicide drones are basically missiles or torpedoes at the end of the day.

What is a Shahed but a glorified, slow guided missile really?

And range probably. I’m assuming this suicide drone is likely to have really long range and some sort of loiter ability. The bigger upside in this conflict is likely that it doesn’t require a warship to be near the target. You could probably even have the thing on a cargo ship, put it in the water and have it do it’s preprogrammed thing. Sure, it that is probably a violation of various international laws, but that’s also every day ending in a Y.

23821

Yeah, really I think function basically merged and made it redundant to have different terminology. It’s just one of those things where drones started as planes that didn’t have a pilot onboard. Initially they limited in capability to things like target drones, but have matured over the decades to surveillance and carrying weapons(but those are expensive and big, therefore vulnerable). But then people realized it was easier/cheaper to take a cheap and disposable drone, put some explosives on it, and make it the weapon. Thus they reinvented the missile. Sort of like convergent evolution.

23822

Suicide drone does sound more intimidating than ghetto cruise missile at the end of the day.

23823

Can’t take them seriously, what with the gold chains and baggy pants.

23824

A torpedo that does not dive is also not really a torpedo, but more like a cruise missile that flies at exactly sea level ;-)

I find it hard to believe such things are so hard to defend against. There’s a good reason torpedos conventionally are underwater weapons. And there’s an equally good reason fro cruise missiles to fly high enough to not incur drag from the water (or earths’) surface. Their value seems to lie in availability and surprise.

23825

Yeah, big explosive boat needs to be able to be surprising because it’s a boat filled with explosives, in a properly hot area it would never have a chance. Sneaking one to a bridge where people have gotten fatigued or just aren’t looking, it’s the way to get tons of TNT on target.

23826

Newly trained and Western equipped Ukrainians prepare for battle:

23827

Some excerpts from ISW’s Feb 11 update:

23828

It would be strange if the Russians weren’t interested in stirring shit up in places like Kosovo.

I don’t see how they could elevate it to a direct military operation though. They’d be surrounded by NATO members and sympathizers.

At least not without Serbia, but even with public support, I don’t know that the Serbian leadership would crucify themselves for the Russians.

(Originally a Telegraph story, but that’s behind a paywall)

23829

As we’ve very clearly over the course of this last year, Russian leadership is working within a… different… information environment than folks like you and I.

23830

Here is video of how all those RUS vehicles got gathered in one spot around Vuhledar.

23831

I wonder if they know it’s a mine field, or HIMARS has conditioned them to leg it when something goes bang.