The Russia is getting more evil thread

[spiffy]

@Mark_Weston

civilian telecoms company decided that they didn’t want their service used as the command-and-control mechanism for lethal drones.

So does the US or EU government not have any similar system in place? Seems odd to have this kind of blind spot.

[Ginger_Yellow]

IANAME, but I think UK military comms is, funnily enough, via Skynet, which was a PPP thing.

Skynet (satellite)

[sincilbanks]

And wargamers trace an unblocked line of hexes free of enemy ZOC’s to a map edge…

[alekseivolchok]

One of the reasons a year ago I was sure Russia wouldn’t go for a direct confrontation with the West.

Anyway, it’s clear they probably didn’t think there will be any real confrontation beyond just words, storing all the Russian government money in the Western banks was a clear sign of trust.

EDIT: Just to be clear, it’s not my image. Solovyov’s son might be a good man for all I know, the point is that he probably didn’t earn his ticket to London and rent with his own work (he was born in 2001, he’s only 21) and this is a very common path for children of these patriots. Journalists learned similar stories about the most patriotic politicians. E.g. the person who wrote LGBT propaganda laws has a daughter living in Holland. To go back to that talk about USSR corruption VS Russian corruption - in USSR all those important sons and daughters would be vice chairmen of some regional committees, not having a happy life in the countries that their dads publicly promise to nuke.

[JonRowe]

@Mark_Weston

I don’t think it would be very surprising if any civilian telecoms company decided that they didn’t want their service used as the command-and-control mechanism for lethal drones.

This is a great point. I hate Musk, sure, a cowardly rich fame-grubber.

But, thinking about this beyond that specific bad person, the point overall is right. Civilian internet/telecoms being used by the military for operations feels wrong. Not only should these companies be allowed to not have certain people use their service (their right as a company), but the reason why militaries don’t use civilian communications networks is that they are more of a security risk. I don’t know what has been done in Ukraine, but part of the US helping them with infrastructure should have been and should continue to be, helping them set up a military communications infrastructure.

As much as I hate Musk, and want Ukraine to be independent and free, there needs to be a push to an alternative to them using civilian infrastructure for military ops.

The alternate argument is that Musk is a pedant who argues that the “internet should be free” and that freedom should allow countries or militaries to use it as they see fit. If the founder of the company wants to evangelize a free internet, stopping here makes him look a fool.

[scottagibson]

It strikes me as something quite hard for a company to decide to do. I might be wrong, but I thought Ukraine was specifically using Starlink to replace land line and cell phone network infrastructure deliberately destroyed by Russian forces, to support internet access, texting, IP calling. I don’t really know how SpaceX or Musk can tell whether a particular cell phone call was a soldier calling a spouse or a request for an artillery strike; or whether a web session is ordering a pizza or piloting a drone. Unless they’re listening in, or tracking a lot of metadata they probably ought not to be tracking. Absent that, they’re just arbitrarily turning off service for some people but not others.

Edit: I guess, more succinctly, I don’t know what Starlink is permitting, what they are not permitting, or how they are deciding, so it’s hard for me to conclude they’re doing the right thing.

[antlers]

Musk really does not want Russia to decide Starlink is a legitimate military target. Russia has a robust anti-satellite capability, and debris from a few destroyed Starlinks could make that region of space unusable for years.

[scottagibson]

Sure, that makes some sense, but I still don’t really know what they’re permitting, what they’re not permitting, how they’re deciding, and what actions they’re taking based on that decision.

[JonRowe]

Well, I would assume the Ukranian military using Starlink is using some pretty obvious systems and encryptions no civilian is using, which make them easy to block.

[Ginger_Yellow]

In the past when they’ve curtailed access it’s been geography based, so he might just be talking about no service over Russian held territory. But clearly Starlink has direct access to the transmissions it carries so it could do content based blocking if it wanted to. Seems like a waste of resources as well as a PR nightmare though (not to mention hilariously hypocritical for Musk).

[scottagibson]

@JonRowe

Well, I would assume the Ukranian military using Starlink is using some pretty obvious systems and encryptions no civilian is using, which make them easy to block.

I would be stunned to discover that Ukrainian military using Starlink is not quite often just people talking with each other using WhatsApp, instead of a military radio.

[Mark_Weston]

Moldova's President outlines Russian 'plan' to topple gov't

[KevinC]

Article discussing demographic impacts in Russia due to the war.

https://wapo.st/3xgn6bI

Russian President Vladimir Putin’s war has set off a historic exodus of his own people. Initial data show that at least 500,000, and perhaps nearly 1 million, have left in the year since the invasion began — a tidal wave on scale with emigration following the 1917 Bolshevik Revolution and the Soviet Union’s collapse in 1991.

Now, like then, the departures stand to redefine the country for generations. And the flood may still be in its early stages. The war seems nowhere near finished. Any new conscription effort by the Kremlin will spark new departures, as will worsening economic conditions, which are expected as the conflict drags on.

The financial cost, while vast, is impossible to calculate. In late December, Russia’s Communications Ministry reported that 10 percent of the country’s IT workers had left in 2022 and not returned. Russia’s parliament is now debating a package of incentives to bring them back.

But there has also been talk in parliament of punishing Russians who left by stripping them of their assets at home. Putin has referred to those who left as “scum” and said their exit would “cleanse” the country — even though some who left did not oppose him, or the war.

[Aleck]

Wow. Imagine if Putin’s invasion of Ukraine ended up with Russia booted from Transnistria (and maybe some of the other “frozen conflict” zones), too! Talk about punching yourself in the face.

[meeper]

@Aleck

Imagine if Putin’s invasion of Ukraine ended up with Russia booted from Transnistria (and maybe some of the other “frozen conflict” zones), too! Talk about punching yourself in the face.

Never underestimate the ability of tyrants to spin any situation to their advantage. To them, it would be something they held up to their people (and large parts of the world) as an example of western conspiracies.

[KevinC]

@meeper

I want to believe that’s the case, but color me slightly skeptical.

Ukrainian PR was a master of storing up videos of successfully strikes on Russian equipment in the spring and drip-feeding them out over the summer/fall to make it seem like they were still having the same level of success. It’s reasonable to think they may still be sitting on similar footage from last winter.

Given their past behaviour, I’d like to see some level of corroboration on that footage before I accept it blindly.

CNN confirmed/geolocated the footage, FWIW.

'Like turkeys at a shooting range': Mauling of Russian forces in Donetsk...

I love Russia’s take on Vuhledar.

The Russian Defense Ministry has insisted the assault on Vuhledar, where the 155th Marine Brigade is prominently involved, is going according to plan.

[TheWombat]

The whole Starlink thing is complex, and important, as going forward the lines between different types of use of connectivity will continue to blur. One could argue as some have that civilian companies should be able to decide who uses their system for what purposes, but that opens up the possibility of, say, not allowing BLM activists or the Baptist Church or whatever to use it, either. One could argue that modern Internet connections are equivalent to power and water and other utilities, and the companies running them (never mind the discussion about state vs. private control) have an obligation to keep them up and running regardless of use cases, but then you have the problem of enabling, say, a repressive dictatorship or hate group.

One problem here is that the way Musk frames things is horrible, and makes him look like a Russian stooge, as well as someone totally ignorant of how the modern world actually works outside of his little bubble. Elevating a private company to a position of monitoring and vetting a sovereign nation state’s communications is certainly a celebration of private property rights but it also has a lot of ramifications. After the war, assuming Ukraine is still intact as a sovereignty, I’m betting there will be a piper to be paid.

[Menzo]

@TheWombat

that opens up the possibility of, say, not allowing BLM activists or the Baptist Church or whatever to use it, either.

Not really - in the US there are laws that make discrimination based on religion or race illegal.

[Menzo]

On the one hand: duh. On the other: why are they just now suggesting this?

United States tells citizens: Leave Russia immediately

[meeper]

@KevinC

CNN confirmed/geolocated the footage, FWIW.

Awesome!