The Russia is getting more evil thread


#222

Have you read “Fall Out” by Tim Shipman (Times journalist)? In it, he writes that after the last GE - when Corbyn did not lose anywhere near as badly as most thought he would - Blair put his head in his hands and said “I don’t understand this country any more”.

Most of the young Gen-X/old Millennials (so 30-45 I guess?) who would have voted Blair seem to have joined the Lib Dems, but that party is on the ropes. The Tory party seem to have moved as far away from Blair as they can, albeit on a different axis. Politically, the country is in a real mess right now from the perspective of anyone who liked left-wing social policies combined with centre-ground economic ones.


#223

Yeah we’re squeezed by ethno-nationalists on the right, tankies to the left and there’s no serious options for us in Parliament.


#224

So I want to pick up on this, because it’s interesting.

Firstly the criticism has never really been that he’s antisemitic. It’s been that he will happily ally with antisemities, and will protect antisemites who support his cause. I find it funny that you say you haven’t done your own digging - why then do you assume the case against him is so weak? British jews certainly don’t agree with you! Why don’t you accept their judgement? (Both the board of deputies and polling indicate widespread (although not unanimous) agreement on this point).

It’s very very easy to criticise Israel without saying antisemitic things. Countless politicians in the UK have done it. Jeremy Corbyn himself does it very regularly! People have looked very carefully at what he’s said on Palestine (and he’s said a lot), but I’ve never seen a quote from him denounced as antisemitic.

But he doesn’t have a problem with other people saying antisemitic things. Now when you’re marching alongside Palestinian campaigners that’s something that’s going to happen - there are plenty of people there who have suffered greatly as a result of the occupation and spent a lot of time in antisemitic environments. There’s not much he can do in that scenario. But when he brought a lot of those people with him to the Labour party he’s never seemed to care unless the political cost of not taking action is very high.


#225

It continues to bemuse me why the Lib Dems dont have broader support.

I mean, Tim Farron and Vince Cable, yes, but still.


#226

Completely anecdotal, but I have some good neighborhood friends, Israeli, who are are progressive, gay, non religious, and tell me how every single muslem who is on the authorities’ watch list should immediately be incarcerated and sorted out later. Should I listen to my Russian coworker and accept his explanations that most Russian misdoings are overblown if not false? Agree with my US inlaws that following their grandkids baseball league batting average is of more importance than following current events, or understanding what drives gas prices? Like it or not, my best shot is to trust in mainstream media outlets that I think report as many sides of the issue as possible, and take it from there.

BTW, FWIW, I voted Lib Dem last election…


#227

I’m pretty fair left and the Putin sympathy mystifies me. He’s culturally conservative mafia leader.

I do see people in the US far left who were so angry at Clinton for defeating Bernie that they publicly advocated against voting for her in the general. These people seem to have a sunk cost where since they pushed so long for voting against Clinton on the grounds that Clinton and Trump were the same, now they are stuck constantly making excuses for why Trump isn’t actually worse than Clinton would have been, and this bleeds into Russia policy. If they ever acknowledge how terrible Trump is they have to admit how wrong they were.


#228

There are plenty of non-toxic pacifist anti US hegemony types spread across the British left, and they would largely agree with you about Putin.

However there’s a small but very vocal and passionate minority who appear happy to back anyone as long as they oppose the US (probably initially people who refused to admit they were wrong about the USSR who justified it by exaggerating the evils of the US). I would say (although I’m sure many would disagree) Corbyn has been involved with those circles for a long time, which is why these people, who were largely an irrelevance pre-2015, are now much higher profile in the UK.

You probably have a few of these people in the US, but noone cares because they’re a tiny irrelevant minority with no platform and they’re not actually a danger to anyone (unlike, say, neo-Nazis, where even 1 neo Nazi is worth caring about).


#229

Possibly because the one time they got a whiff of power they betrayed their core principles and their base to stay in the coalition that got us in the mess we’re in now.


#230

https://www.yahoo.com/news/russia-says-told-u-where-153625419.html

Russia told trump where he could bomb Syria.

**

Mission Unaccomplished

**


#231

Yes. As the Lib dems, you betray your constituency and ally with your foes to support policies you know the voters hate. Apparently purely for the graft opportunities that the lesser ministries afford since you can’t influence policy in the slightest while the Tories are being dragged right by UKIP and their own malicious stupidity. So you better not be surprised when you are destroyed in the next election.


#232

Hell yeah. Come by my synagogue sometime to hear people argue about Israeli policy. Not a drop of anti-semitism amongst us, um, semites, but a lot of divergence of opinion on Israeli actions.


#233

That sounds really interesting. More interesting then my church, were we shy away from all politics (which is probably a good thing).


#234

I just forgo church and pray at the altar of video games on my Sundays. Anti-semitism depends on whether I’m playing online games with randos or not!


#235

Being Jewish is sort of inherently political. That, and a shul is more a community center than anything else; the only “holy” or sanctified part of it is the ark where the Torah scrolls stay. The rest is just a building. We have non-Jewish stuff there all the time–yoga classes, community groups, whatever.


#236

This is an excellent description.


#237

Putin is so evil…


#238

#239

Russia was slowly poisoning BP chief Bob Dudley to try and make him so miserable he’d sell out fast to get out of Russia.


#240



#241

fucking retards