2741

Moral of the story: don’t give up your nukes. Ever.

2742

I thought it was the case that the nukes Ukraine gave up were mostly unmaintained and decaying?

2743

Absolutely.

And I completely agree. We have to accept that we’re back to the Cold War. Putin has made that as clear as he possibly can.

If we wimp out on the toughest possible sanctions just because we’re so greedy that we’d rather have a few Russian billions in our pocket (or specifically, a few of our corporation’s pockets) then I dunno… I quit.

2744

Maybe they ‘accidentally’ retained a few? That’s the stuff of an action Hollywood movie.

2745

And B) if you don’t have them, get them quickly.

2746

I have the same sentiment. I mean if we can’t even impose the harshest of sanctions for something this egregious…

2747

Twitter video of kids watching a Russian air strike, posted with spoilers for kids crying. (No gore or anything.) War in 2022.

Twitter Video Link

Air Strike Video

2748

Realistically Putin wouldn’t order a nuclear strike if NATO reinforces Ukraine militarily. Because stopping Russians in Ukraine is not an existential threat to Russia. Also because that is basically MAD (mutually assured destruction) to actually use nuclear weapon. Even if he is that crazy, other people in Russian military aren’t. His vague threat is IMO a bluff.

The problem of course is the lack of political will in NATO countries (plus us friends of NATO) to do anything more to help Ukraine. Between the cowardice of buying Putin’s threat uncritically, or seeing through his threat but still cowardly choose to not do more because doing more is too inconvenient, I’d rather pick the latter.

2749

I don’t think we should underestimate the impact of significant sanctions on the West and world economies. Oil is $100/barrel now, and I read that it may go as high as $150/barrel which would be a significant shock to the world economy. Russia/Ukraine is one of the world’s largest exporters of gain - increases there will hurt poor people around the world who devote a significant amount of their income on food. Really tough sanctions could trigger recessions in Europe and the US, and maybe elsewhere in the world. I support really hard hitting sanctions but we shouldn’t pretend we won’t also pay a cost.

2750

I don’t really get how anyone could know that. It’s possible he wouldn’t, but it’s possible he would.

The rest of the world could cripple Russia economically without firing a shot, and — as others have pointed out — the assets of the kleptocrat billionaires themselves are accessible and quite easy to seize. That seems a far better arena to retaliate in, and there it’s possible to draw conclusions about will or lack of it.

2751

I mean, even Russian money knows:

2752

That is fucking disgusting. GOP lawmakers blaming Biden and the Democrats for Putin’s insanity while their orange god emperor actively praises Putin for invading another sovereign nation. It’s all the usual suspects too, the whole traitorous, ignorant, odious lot of them need to fuck right the hell off. We stand on the brink of a World War, and they’re pointing fingers and calling people names like pouting children instead of coming together to present a united response from America.

As others have said in this thread and elsewhere, several things need to happen very quickly to prevent this situation from escalating out of control.

  • Finland and Sweden need to decide if they want to become NATO members in light of these events. Both countries have resisted the idea in the past, but both have also cooperated with and lent forces to NATO operations in the past as well. Even if NATO created some sort of emergency charter to approve interested nations as “NATO-aligned” states it would lend protection from Russian aggression. Perhaps this could be extended to other European nations in a similar situation as well.
  • The federal law enforcement agencies of the United States, United Kingdom and other European countries need to immediately crack down on Russian oligarch assets in their countries. Make these actions cost Putin’s mafia a shit ton of money and influence outside of Russia. Hit them where it hurts, as most countries where Russian money and influence is being moved around know damn well exactly where it is happening and can move to hinder it, it’s just going to piss off a bunch of other rich nationals in those countries. Too fucking bad.
  • Western countries need to impose significant and sweeping sanctions against Russia. Clamp down to the point where the only stuff getting through is literally humanitarian aid until Putin withdraws. Seriously, the Russian people most likely do not support this invasion, they could give a shit less about supposed “Russians” living in Ukraine who “want to rejoin their countrymen”. When sanctions make conditions in Russia worse for Russians, there will be unrest. Let Russians know that their leader is the cause of all of this, and perhaps they will decide a new leader is in order. At the very least the unrest at home will redirect Putin’s focus.

This entire thing is predicated on Putin wanting more developed territory under Russian control. Russia’s economy is largely fossil fuel based, with mining and agriculture making up another significant chunk. As the world becomes less dependent on Russian oil and gas, the Russian economy faces a long, slow slide into decline. Ukraine has deposits of uranium and minerals used in technology manufacturing that Russia wants. Putin likely sees Ukraine, the Baltic States and other former USSR territories and the resources and facilities their economies have built since the Cold War ended as the solution to Russia’s economic problems. He can also divvy up the spoils to all of his oligarch friends, thereby cementing their loyalty and his control over the country. Thus far nobody has had the balls to stop him. Crimea was a test, the world failed it, so now the real plan is set in motion. We cannot fail again.

2753
2754

I’d seriously love to see all of of those fuckers move to Russia. Free press? What’s that? Freedom? Democracy?

2755

Finland and Sweden cozying up to NATO in the wake of Russian agression.

2756

I think their plan is to make Russia here. No need to move.

2757

Seeing a report on Social Media that a key German army official is basically saying the German army doesn’t have equipment/support to be strong and the army warned German politicians to make military stronger. Granted this a call for more funding but NATO has been a bit of a paper tiger for a while.

I believe we’re heading to the bad old new World order with Russia/China/NK/Pakistan/Iran alliance vs not them. Question is how strong are the not themself. As everyone know, Taiwan has to be super nervous and on the menu.

2758

This, exactly. The old GOP railed against Communism and the USSR. The new GOP doesn’t see Putin’s oligarchy as a threat to be deterred, they see it as an achievement to be emulated.

2759

There is a whole thread of these fuckers here:

2760

Replace with “poke the bear hard and unleash the bull/beardogs?”