2821

They could’ve come to the same conclusion watching Fox.

2822

I’m disappointed by the Russian people, particularly the Russian elite, for allowing this to happen. Russia will lose the economic cold war much faster than the USSR did and there’s a possibility that the result will be another break up of the country.

2823

You can’t be disappointed in the Russian people. They didn’t have a choice in this. It’s not a democracy. We CAN be disappointed in the small circle of Russian oligarchs around Putin, but it’s unclear how much they genuinely influence him in this area.

2824

People in Russia have been speaking out and they end in prison camps or dead. Even the elite!

2825

I thought I was a lifelong hawk but you have me beat!

2826

Welp… now we know why Putin didn’t want Ukraine to be a member of NATO.

2827

Eh, they have SOME control of this though.

While they do not live in a free society, they DO still have agency. Their government, brutal though it may be, does not in fact have the strength to truly oppress the Russian people if they choose to slip the yolk of autocracy. Indeed, they’ve done it before.

Every day, there are Russians who DO stand up to Putin, and then deal with the consequences. They get thrown into jail, or worse. But they do it anyway, because it’s the right thing to do.

What keeps their actions from being more effective, is that not enough Russians have joined their cause yet.

And part of this, I suspect, is that after the fall of the USSR, things did legitimately suck. You had decades of economic and social problems that had just been swept under the rug… they were never dealt with, or fixed. They were just hidden. The can was kicked down the road, and when the USSR crumbled a lot of those problems suddenly came to the forefront.

I think there is a large chunk of the Russian population who wanted the security and stabilty that Putin promised. They want a strongman. His promises are false, but they sound good, and a lot of folks have fallen for them. A lot of people always fall for the populist bullshit pushed by autocrats.

The Russians and Belarussians are perhaps less directly responsible for the actions of their country than we as Americans are, but they are not entirely without agency. They are not inanimate objects, carried along by the river of autocracy. They do in fact share blame for this.

2828

Nah, I’m not buying it. The Russian people gave Putin more and more power and in return he gave them “stability” and a shallow sense of pride. Now they have a potentially mentally ill autocrat (he looked unstable in the TV war justification earlier today) and he is running the show unopposed.

Same thing with Trump and whatever the fuck sprouts from his legacy. Americans are definitely responsible for their own choices as well.

2829

20 minutes ago on cnn’s live feed

Russian riot police tell protesters to disperse in Moscow

From CNN’s Anna Chernova and Nic Robertson

Russian riot police are urging protesters to leave Pushkinskaya Square in Moscow, saying over loudspeakers that the “[protest] action is unauthorized.”

CNN’s Nic Robertson and team on the ground have witnessed people being detained by police. Some are carrying signs with messages, including multiple signs saying “no to war.”

Russian authorities on Thursday warned citizens that participating in anti-war protests could lead to prosecution and criminal charges.

2830

I’m guessing but I expect a non-trivial amount of them view the West and especially the USA much how you guys view Trump/the GOP. As in, they know in their hearts the West is evil. The West are constant meddlers, always seeking to suppress the good people of Russia. The 2014 unrest in Ukraine was due to CIA interference in the country etc. I exaggerate to try and get my point across but you get the idea. “We’re the bad guys and they’re the good guys, fighting the good fight”.

2831

Russia has been moving towards an all
professional army but still relies upon conscripts for about 40% of its army. Not sure what the mix is of the peacekeeping force is though.

2832

Wow, I would not have expected BoJo to have balls that large, or act so swiftly. My very low opinion of him just edged upwards ever so slightly. Hopefully he can get the UK government to approve all of that, and it will set in motion a domino effect around Europe. We also need Biden and the Democrats to push similar sanctions through quickly.

Hitting Russia hard economically won’t drive them out of Ukraine right away, but it will destabilize their economy at home, causing problems for Putin both politically and militarily. If it goes on long enough we could even see the Russian people rise up, or more likely a cabal of oligarchs that attempt a coup, and a regime change or total breakdown of the Russian government. As was mentioned in some article upthread, the sanctions imposed on Putin/Russia when they took Crimea were like a 2 on a 10 scale. If the world slaps Russia with sanctions on a 6 or 7 on the 10 scale in the coming weeks, it will have disastrous effects on the country.

2833

What force are you referencing here?

2834

Speaking your mind in Russia also seems to be the leading cause of defenestration, so, just like in Soviet Russia, Russians can speak their mind.

Once.

2835

This too.

EDIT:

2836

Boris always wanted a chance to be Churchill. And in general, the majority of Brits expect their government to do something that looks genuinely substantive in situations like this (it’s worth noting that Labour criticism of the government asserts that they’re not hitting Russia hard enough or not helping Ukraine enough). So this shouldn’t be surprising.

2837

What news I can find so far of anti-war protests in Russia.

2838

If it’s anything like what they sent into Georgia, it’s got a lot of conscripts.

2839

You know, Putin’s peacekeepers, keeping the peace in Belarus, Kazakhstan, Georgia, Moldova, and now Ukraine. He just loves peace so much!

2840

These people are heros. They go into these protests KNOWING that they are going to suffer dire consequences, but they do it anyway, because they know what’s right.