The Russia is getting more evil thread

Motorcycles get cope cages:

Damn thing looks like it will kill him anyhow.

A shrapnel drone will kill him easily.

Hell, a rut in the road will kill him just as dead. And yeah, I doubt that cope cage is going to stop much more than a bored sparrow. The bird, not the missile.

Tell that to the good people of Salisbury, lobbing a fake perfume bottle full of Novicheck into the rubbish doesn’t strike me as “targeted”

Azov to get US weapons

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Now that the US and Europe have given Ukraine the go-ahead to strike into Russia proper with out weapons, is there anything stopping us from giving them the longest range non-nuclear missiles we have? Imagine if we gave them enough for a single day strike that sinks the ENTIRE Russia Black Sea fleet? And take out the Kirov-Class Battle Cruiser anchored in Leningrad at the same time.
The Tomahawk, AGM-86, and JASSM would all be perfect for this.

That would be a phenomenal crippling blow to their Navy and their pride.

The Republicans.

I don’t see it discussed much, but Georgia seems to be falling into Russian hands.

Just last year they got status of EU candidate. It made some people move it seems. Now their seemingly Russia-controlled parliament has passed a “foreign agent” law which is often called a copy of American practice but in reality it’s a light version of “enemy of the people” status. In Russia it came out in 10 years and since then they’ve added to it so that it’s not too scary but not too toothless. Naturally EU is now angry at Georgia, and there’s already talk about restoring good relationships with Russia. I remind you that Russia has annexed Georgian territory 15 years ago and there’s no doubt that really this is subjugation, not friendship.

The approval they’ve been given is strictly around the Kharkiv area and doesn’t include use of ATACMS(from what I recall).

That said, Ukraine could still hit whatever of the Black Sea fleet is left stationed in Crimea, as that’s Ukrainian territory. I think I saw one of the Kerch strait ferries the Ukrainians hit the other day used ATACMS. They’ve been knocking out the ferries Russia was using to supply Crimea and pushed traffic back to the bridge. I wonder what could be next? Especially with rumors that Russia is pulling some air defenses out of Crimea after yet more Ukrainian attacks on them.

If we’re looking to start donating longer range missiles than ATACMS I think we’re in the realm of cruise missiles at that point.

We’ve got between 4,000-8,000 Tomahawks.

The Tomahawk hasn’t been launched against an opponent with Air defenses in nearly 30 years.

I don’t know how well these would do. GPS guidance is being jammed fairly effectively by the Russians, so only the newer and more expensive versions would be more effective.

Cruise missles are cool and all, but they are slow, and just as susceptible to anti-air as anything else flying subsonic in the skies.

And if I understand it correctly, we still have nuclear-armed cruise missiles that are I think indistinguishable from those with conventional warheads. I’m not sure having the Ukrainians launch a bunch of cruise missiles at the Russians would be the best idea. I don’t trust them to not freak out.

None of the Tomahawks made in the last 20 years depend on GPS guidance. They can get to their target precisely without it.

I thought their big advantage there is that they fly super low which makes them much harder for air defenses to detect and engage. Regardless, the French and British have given Ukraine a decent number of their Storm Shadow/SCALP-EG.

The Storm Shadow is low-observable as well, with a bit of stealth coating/design built in to make it harder to detect.

I see that the Block V (most recent version) added low observance features. Are we going to give Ukraine our newest missiles? How many do we have of the newest version?

I guess, I am just skeptical of how effective cruise missiles would be in the relatively strong anti-air atmosphere of this war.

This is the only post I can find that isn’t some BBC article breathlessly talking up the UK’s fancy new missile.

Here is another post.

in order to be 100% effective, a Storm Shadow strike also needs to be “supported” by American AGM-88 HARM anti-radar missiles and ADM-160 MALD decoy drones.

So, current strikes in Ukraine using Storm Shadow or SCAP-ER missiles are already requiring AGM-88’s and decoy missiles to be effective.

The other issue is, they already have access to Storm Shadow (in small numbers) increasing the number of cruise missiles isn’t going to make them magically more effective, it sounds like we will also need to increase other support as well to be able to use these effectively, because even with the low observance and low flight profiles, they are very capable of being shot down.

Flying low certainly helps against ground based radar, but Russia is flying A-50’s round the clock to provide air-based radar as well, which is more effective at finding things airborne, even low flying planes.

And here is the point if Ukrainian air defense forces have already reached the average level of up to 85% effectiveness in shooting down subsonic cruise missiles, the Russians, too, can learn and at least try to neutralize Storm Shadows by their own means.

We have been shooting down Russian cruise missiles very effectively, the Russians can do it as well. Their anti-air network is very good, and always has been. It is actually one of the only good things their military does.

Ukraine having more F-16’s really opens up the possibility of these kinds of strikes working well though, as they can carry the MALD decoy missiles, as well as the AGM-88 HARM’s.

I just think, right now they have access to a subsonic cruise missile, and you don’t see it being used all the time, and that is because they are really expensive, and are also not immune to anti-air defenses and require massive amounts of support to work. It isn’t as simple as “give them more cruise missiles”.

This is all, really unfortunate, because giving Ukraine Tomahawks in 2022 would have been super effective, but now that we have given Russia 2 years to get their shit together, they are much more prepared to defend against this sort of thing.

I find it amusing that the US names their weapon systems after GI Joes. Send them some Shipwrecks too!

Well, Storm Shadow is a Franco-British system I think. American system names are all over the place, from people to historical references to whatever the hell someone makes up.

The US has some extremely questionable naming based around Native American stuff, which has changed a lot recently, but still.

Like, yeah we slaughtered a bunch of your people, but we’ll name an attack helicopter after your tribe, OK?