Hungary now in favor of cutting off SWIFT:

I think this was the last holdout?

This is an interesting thread that seems to say that the US sanctions already imposed on Russian banks are far more draconian than cutting off SWIFT would be. Effectively, every dollar-based electronic transaction in the world flows through the NY Federal Reserve Bank, and the sanctions prevent that from happening.

You also have Euro and Sterling denominated transactions that the US bans do not cover. SWIFT increases the pressure.

What I don’t yet understand is if SWIFT is cut off how is Europe going to pay for their Russian gas?
Maybe there is enough contingency to go without but how?

Winter is ending (peak use is past us, I think) and I doubt the sanctions will be effective immediately (lots of the recent sanctions have up to a month of “warning time”).

My guess is there are plans to set up somewhat viable alternatives until the next winter.

Yes, certainly, but something like 80% of international transactions involving Russian banks are apparently carried out in dollars.

The Kremlim is now saying they ordered a halt on Friday to try to set up negotiations but restarted the offensive today because those contacts broke off.

Which is an interesting way of trying to explain away the lack of advance Friday.

They were just too interested in peace!

That’s my understanding too. There were a couple other holdouts, but they agreed to it earlier today, As far as I know everyone is now on board.

I’ve posted about it earlier.

Apparently Russian army doesn’t really fight to let Ukrainians surrender. Sad that Russian kindness is perceived as weakness by decadent and amoral hawks of the West.

You’re really listing all the reasons why you would never risk a coventional war. As long as we aren’t shooting at each other, we have a chance to deal with miscalculations, accidents, Soviet palace intrigue and strategic aspirations. In a war, those same things lead to the launch of a nuclear weapon.

In all the simulations we ran, nuclear war began, either as the result of a deliberate first strike, or as the result of a miscalculation or misunderstanding within days or weeks of war breaking out.

I know there was talk of viable conventional war, but I think it was partly motivated by budget concerns, or proposed by the kinda guys who were satirized in Dr Strangelove. Mineshafts and mental gymnastics.

We used to run these simulations regularly in Denmark too, and the results were always the same:

Correct. There were simulations where troops were being overrun on either side, and that side opted for a tactical nuclear strike (small nukes) on their own soil, to kill everyone on the line and stop the attack.

The idea was that using them defensively on your own side of the line (and killing a bunch of your own troops) was safer, and might serve as a warning to the other side, but in every simulation it lead to the other side being more willing to use their own tactical nukes, so it became tit for tat, and at some point someone launched the big ones.

The only logical nuclear doctrine, is that we must be completely sure of what the consequences will be, before we ever act against a nuclear power, and that still applies. There is no room for guessing or hoping, because if we get it wrong, we all die.

In a conventional war there are absolutely no guarantees, at that point we start to rely on assumptions and aspirations that may be false, and are subject to change at a moments notice. That’s really the opposite of a rational nuclear doctrine.

(Also I just wanna say I really appreciate your posts)

This SWIFT thing is also public politics, which has a role. For those that do the banning and those who are banned. Quite apart from the economic impacts.

I know you jest but I kinda doubt the rank and files are thrilled to be fighting this. If they are anything like the modern people that we are, they have smartphones and they must be getting all sort of messages from Russia. Some of the footage I saw of them interacting with civilians are polite or restrained to say the least.

Not kindness but more like reluctance to engage.

I get Zelensky’s approach: go for the hearts and minds of Russians. His address to the Russian people directly may be last ditch but also potentially very effective political communication only a former comedian can pull off.

Even if the most of Ukrainian videos with captured Russians are fake - Russian ones are basically nonexistent. They haven’t shown any interview with POWs, all they have is some people that you see from far away, and they are “sent home after signing a promise to not fight against Russia”.

No one is Russia is fooled by this, not to mention Ukraine. Official statement of Russian ministry of defend is, I quote, “all the videos of captured Russian soldiers are fakes made by weed smoking nationalist bands”.

Why is Putin calling the government of Ukraine drug addicts? Just seems like a complete out of leftfield insult?

Not sure if this (from NYT) has been posted.

I agree. I think regardless of its actual effects (I’ve seen similar discussion to the one @scottagibson posted upthread), SWIFT cut-off has reached a level of publicity where if we don’t cut it off, it ends up being perceived as the West not doing enough.

Ukraine wants a no fly zone and SWIFT cut-off. They have explicitly asked for these. We can’t give them a no fly zone, and we can’t (or are unwilling — rightly unwilling IMHO) to send in military forces. We can, however, remove Russian access to SWIFT. This shows support for Ukraine and Western resolve and unity. This is an important message to send.

No way to know if this is real intelligence or how it was acquired, but poster is a member of the European Parliament and the former defense chief of Estonia.