That arty park…are those D-30s? Looks like they just set up in a textbook formation. Literally, like out of the field manuals (and in a field, too!) except I guess the parts about concealment and security and stuff.

Again, this message is fake. Already have been refuted by Belarusian officials. Technically this guy can’t even resign, he has to send a request for resignation to the president.

If Putin is playing poker not chess, he may have the Corbomite Maneuver up his sleeve.

I have no intention of derailing this thread or going into point-by-point refutations back and forth, so this is last I’ll write on this, at least here. There were many Iraqis (may be even majority) who celebrated toppling of Saddam, but that doesn’t mean they liked getting bombed, destroyed and having their country invaded. You have watched the war through the shock-and-awe filter of the media here. If you want to run parallels with Ukraine invasion, go watch the Russian propaganda, and it must be showing thousands of Ukrainians celebrating in eastern parts of Ukraine. Lot of those footage will be genuine.

Many more people have to die, and a lot of country’s infrastructure have to be destroyed over years of occupation over a population with deep hatred who want the invaders out, before Ukraine can reach even somewhat close to Iraq and Afghanistan. So no, they are not exactly same.

Stuff like this that makes me extremely tired of the “if only we had done x and y, conflict could be averted”. Putin and Russian media have been pretty plain since the invasion started. There is no fallback position here, no middle of the road option that would satisfy Putin. The only deterrence that would have worked would be a a credible threat of intervention - which would itself have been as likely to accelerate the crisis as anything else.

It probably only ends when the Russian army or the Ukrainian government collapses.

Saving face is an art. There’s always a chance.

See people speculating about how aid enters Ukraine. Here’s a brief piece on three people trying to get into Ukraine rather than out of it. Reported saturday evening from the border town of Przemysl, where around a hundred people got on the train into Ukraine.

Nadiya, recently married a Spaniard. Was on her honeymoon when the war started. She’s carrying a bunch of protective gear for her friends who are in the home defense force, after which she plans to try and evacuate her daughter and parents to Spain.

Pierre - half Ukrainian, half French. Bringing in protective gear for his cousin, who signed up for the army and sent him pictures of his “equipment” … a rifle. Hasn’t decided whether he will sign up himself yet, but promised his fiancee that he’d return to her by the end of the week.

Anonymous - father of two, who has lived with his wife and kids in Poland for the past three years. Travelling right to Enerhodar (site of the Nuclear power plant in the news) where he plans to join the front line forces directly. His home town is in Russian hands. Says his wife and kids didn’t try to stop him.

Damned war.

You never said they were exactly the same. In fact, you made it clear that the feelings were hardly unanimous. Your basic point was right: people tend to resent invasion and bombing and killing and occupation by foreign forces, no matter how they felt about the government they had before all that. I don’t really know why anyone would even want to argue against that point, it’s so blindingly obvious and natural.

Some clips making the rounds showing the death of family members in a supposed safe corridor for escape. I’ll leave the associated links imbedded in text so it doesn’t pop up on people’s screens.

NYT article

text of article for the paywalled (hope this is okay to do - I'll remove it if not)

IRPIN, Ukraine — A Russian force advancing on Kyiv fired mortar shells on Sunday at a battered bridge used by evacuees fleeing the fighting, sending panicked civilians running, kicking up a cloud of dust and leaving three members of a family dead on the pavement.

Crowds of hundreds have clustered around the damaged bridge over the Irpin River since Saturday. Ukrainian forces had blown up the bridge earlier to slow the Russian advance. Only a dozen or so Ukrainian soldiers were in the immediate area of the bridge on Sunday, not fighting but helping carry civilians’ luggage and children.

To cross a hundred yards or so of exposed street on the side of the bridge closer to Kyiv, people seeking to flee to the capital formed small groups and made a run for it together. Soldiers ran out, picked up children or luggage, and ran for cover behind a cinder block wall.

The mortar shells fell first 100 or so yards from the bridge, then shifted in a series of thunderous blasts into a section of street where people were fleeing.

As the mortars got closer to the stream of civilians, people ran, pulling children, trying to find a safe spot. But there was nothing to hide behind. A shell landed in the street, sending up a cloud of concrete dust and leaving one family — a mother, a father, a teenage son and a daughter who appeared about 8 years old — sprawled on the ground.

Soldiers rushed to help, but the woman and children were dead. The father still had a pulse but was unconscious and severely wounded.

Their luggage, a blue roller suitcase and some backpacks, was scattered about, along with a green carrying case for a small dog that was barking.

Ukrainian forces were engaged in clashes nearby, but not at the site where civilians were moving along the street. Outgoing mortar rounds could be heard from a Ukrainian position about 200 yards away.

The shelling suggested either targeting of the evacuation routes from Irpin, something of which the Ukrainian authorities have accused the Russian army after a railroad track used for evacuations was hit on Saturday, or disregard for the risk of civilian casualties.

Russian forces have for days been pushing through three small towns on Kyiv’s northwestern rim, Hostomel, Bucha and Irpin, and the fighting has driven evacuees from the area toward the capital.

Early Sunday morning, the city’s military commander, Oleksiy Kuleba, said in a televised statement that the routes out were so unsafe as to be in effect blocked. “Unfortunately, unless there is a cease-fire,” people could not get out, he said.

But civilians were still trying to escape, first to Kyiv and then perhaps west to somewhere safer.

Soldiers at the site also assisted a wounded member of the Territorial Defense Forces, the organization coordinating armed volunteers in the defense of the city. He had been shot in an arm.

main tweet
video

This is likely another angle of the aircraft shot down a few posts prior

Look at the road this convoy was ambushed upon.

That looks like a deathtrap.

The literal translation would be “punisher”. In Russian, the term is usually used in relation to German troops who retaliated against civil population after guerilla attacks.

Edit: Oops. Didn’t see @alekseivolchok’s comment upthread.

@Valambrian I hope your family is okay

Thank you,@vyshka, they are fine for now. Most of my relatives are in the Western Ukraine, which is not the warzone yet. Fingers crossed it will stay this way.

JFC. This isn’t the Russian army, it’s the Winter War re-enactment society.

Video claiming to be of abandoned Russian armored vehicles in the Mykolaiv area.

Russia seems more than a little concerned about the air war

Cry moar, bitches