There are any number of ways to counter these drones, in terms of point defenses. The broader solution though, leaving aside political issues like pressuring Iran, is as the Navy used to say, shoot the archer not the arrow when talking about fleet defense. The Ukrainians need the capability to locate and eliminate the drone storage, launching, and C3I facilities associated with these things.
spiffy
19319
Yeah, given Russia is bringing Iran in, and attacking cities not associated with the combat front, I’m all for longer range missiles given to Ukraine to strike deeper targets. And if one of them finds that last Crimean bridge span… well, whoopsie.
Why couldn’t the US (or Israel) just do a massive one-time air strike on all the drone and missile manufacturing sites in Iran?
Sovereignty? Collateral damage? Unintended consequences?
I don’t think that has ever been the problem. A cruise missile strike would be safe for the US if there’s a concern of pilot loss/capture.
I was talking about the dead people on the ground, and the unintended political consequences. But sure, because we can do it, let’s just go ahead and do it. There must be some pithy phrase that captures that kind of thinking.
ShivaX
19324
I would work. The solutions are honestly old tech. Prop planes and AA guns would shoot them down easily.
It’s just a matter of scale imo. Cities are big targets and there are quite a few of them. Putting heavy machine guns on tall buildings wont work because the drones will be over population centers before they could be engaged. You’d need some sort of defensive bulwark outside the city. Which means a lot of guns and a lot of people to shoot those guns.
Edit: A lot of hunter-killer drones would also be a possibility, but now you’re talking about New Tech when the threat is already hitting you. That takes too much time and factoring in interception time, I’m not sure it would be that effective. And of course you have to actually invent and build the damned things.
Edit2: I wonder if some sort of radar tweaking could make systems more easily detect the things. But the reality is that while you could maybe get a Gephardt to shoot them down, Ukraine has what, 8 of them? Not a real solution. Those 8 could maybe protect most of Kyiv, and then the Russians would just target a different city. The drones can change targets far faster than the countermeasures could reposition to protect anything. And then those Gephardts aren’t available to shoot down Russian planes elsewhere. It would be a strategic win for Russia effectively taking out all of them for less than the cost of a single sortie to attempt to kill them.
abrandt
19325
Well then, what are you waiting for?
Quaro
19327
I skimmed Russian streams. The Iranian drones are kind of the Russian version of the ‘Tractors defeat Tanks’ memes from early in the invasion – million dollar Western tech being defeated by cheap wooden mopeds. They are watching YouTube videos of Ukrainians running away in fear from the droning sound, and chatters wonder why all Russian weapons do not have fearsome sounds to have the same psychologic effect.
Chat is very upset than any part of Ukraine still has electricity. They play videos of drones hitting Ukrainian cities with Red Alert music and spam the Twitch orc emote.
I was getting unreasonably angry and turned them off pretty quick. Right after they switched to watching Russian nuclear weapon tests. I know it’s internet chatters but jeez.
Janster
19328
I heard they are more akin a cruise missile than a drone… I don’t think anyone directs them.
I think Russia might be getting some serious satellite intel from China…or maybe they got something of their own…or just google maps, whatever…
The Belarus angle is the nasty one, you can kinda sort ouf your defense from the south, but the north…that’s wide and open…they’re going to need a lot more Nasams
Canuck
19329
I would think access to Google Maps is all you need. Just put in some coordinates for the GPS and go. Sounds like having spotters outside the cities with a bunch of old fashioned prop planes constantly on patrol would make a pretty good mess of them. Ukraine can adapt to this and it sounds like it already has if they did successfully intercept 37 out of 43 or whatever.
schurem
19330
Yeah, that went swimmingly, last time they drove/flew south from Belarus!
abrandt
19331
There are also a couple satellite imaging companies that can provide pretty frequently updated imagery. If you’re looking to target things that can be relocated but aren’t constantly on the move, that may be enough for those.
Grifman
19332
Rather than missiles (guidance systems will not be cheap) it would just be cheaper to use cheap kamikaze drones to take out offensive drones.
Grifman
19333
Fascinating look at growth in Western assistance to Ukraine - and why they don’t get everything they ask for or in the amounts they ask for:
Great story. And you nailed the ending.
abrandt
19335
I’ve not gotten through the whole article yet, but this is pretty fantastic. Fills in a ton of gaps of what was going on at the start of the war. Ukraine very much had a defense plan(that they wouldn’t share with anyone) and executed it very well. Also interesting bit about Zelensky possibly making up the offer from Biden to evacuate him.
Unless they’re human operated, which creates a bandwidth problem, they’re going to need guidance systems.
KevinC
19337
It’s paywalled for me, if y’all have some interesting snippets to share I wouldn’t complain. :)
