Well, yeah, that too! The post-WWII trials were an anomaly brought about by the unconditional surrender and occupation of the Axis nations, something unlikely to happen again. Which might in turn make us ponder whether our entire conception of international law and warfare is in need of reformation, because so much of it is based on the idea that there is some form of accountability.
Yes, and given that everyone more or less understands that you can’t actually hold anyone accountable for the atrocities, it isn’t surprising that holding people accountable for the atrocities doesn’t figure very highly in some peoples’ proposed negotiation goals.
JonRowe
19620
That letter is like, just not very useful? Just stupid. At the very least it is just a bad look.
I think people (not necessarily here) are over-reacting to the actual content of the letter, as well as the clarifications that have been made around it. The letter clearly states the invasion was illegal, and the intent of the authors were not that Ukraine give up territory or that we would not continue to send them aid, just that the U.S. should open more of a diplomatic dialogue with Russia.
But, the timing is awful. Why now? The War is at a critical point where Ukraine appears to be holding steady if not making small advances. This is only going to feed into the Russian propaganda machine that the west’s support is crumbling. Ukraine has been leading this effort, and should continue to follow them.
The idea of the U.S. trying to step in and talk to Russia directly might make some sense? Some policy experts say that the well is so poisoned between Ukraine and Russia that no talks will happen between the two, and that talks with the U.S. or another western ally might help end the war with Ukraine getting what it wants. Certainly we don’t know what Russia would do, because there haven’t been any serious talks with the “western aggressors aiding Ukraine” and Russia at this point. Russia is calling the U.S. out as basically part of the conflict, so having us be part of the negotiations would only make sense.
Anyway, the letter is idiotic. They could have done this in private, but they decided to air this grievance publicly, which was just dumb.
I mostly agree with AOC and the progressive caucus, but this was stupid.
KevinC
19622
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/10/25/bakhmut-kherson-ukraine-war-russia/
Pushing out of Bakhmut is really something. Wagner has been throwing everything at that town for months and they’re typically the best that Russia has in the field.
One thing that Paradox games have taught me, (plus more importantly Russia’s experiences in WWI) is that war exhaustion is a real thing. At some point, the Russian people and/or army will have enough dying for this stupid war. At which point, Putin’s literal survival is a stake. Gorbachev’s recently dying peacefully of old age, should be wake-up call, that there are better deaths than a bullet, poison, or being tossed out a window.
Timex
19624
Wagner Group is, like many dictator paramilitaries, a bunch of hype and bullshit.
They’re not some kind of super soldier unit. They’re basically just a bunch of retired Russian soldiers, who really don’t get paid much… and we’ve seen what the Russian soldiers look like when they’re in service. Take those guys, make them older, and you’ve got Wagner.
Not exactly true, now they also have a bunch of people straight outta Russian prisons. Crème de la crème.
Yesterday was a good day for the front. Some very small gains approaching Svatove in the north, pushed out in Bakhmut, and continued to take the ground in Kherson.
Enidigm
19629
It’s fear of Russia losing made manifest. You see this with the Loony-knob Jordan Peterson. “What do you think is going to happen when Putin thinks he’s going to lose?” The modern western replacement of courage and principles with conflict avoidance and snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.
Agreeing to this train of thought is a step towards a nightmare world described in a post I’ve linked some time ago. What then? Will Putin threaten to start a nuclear war over sanctions that make sure Russia will become more backward every year? Will Pakistan demand a place in UN Security Council or they drop the bomb? Will China threaten to start nuclear wars unless Disney destroys all copies of Winnie the Pooh cartoons?
KevinC
19631
Not super soldiers of course, but they’ve typically been the better Russian units in terms of performance. That may be a low bar of course, but still.
abrandt
19633
I worry Putin has been storing away his monarch points in order to keep reducing war exhaustion, though. Thankfully, he kept his army maintenance reduced instead of drilling his troops and increasing his army professionalism. He’s clearly already slackened recruiting standards as low as they’ll go so his options for quickly boosting manpower are pretty much gone. And he clearly doesn’t have the money to hire more mercenaries and his Corruption number is higher than I’ve ever seen and he’s got no money to root it out. Should have focused on building more manufactories in all those fur-producing provinces a few years back when he was bringing in loads of ducats.
They’re going to be the top tier armored enemy in Modern Warfare 27 after all this has settled down.
Maybe they got some of those amazing super armor suits that the Russians were crowing about some time ago. Some of the 300,000 - which means about 30, with Russian discount on numbers.
Yeah! Remember that Cuban Missile crisis when all those people had their panties in a wad about nuclear armageddon? Bunch of pussies, amiright?
The key point though is that Kennedy held firm, and the West did not back down, while still managing to handle things so as to avoid nuclear war. I suspect the point @Enidigm wants to make may well be that we shouldn’t expect a similar level of steadfastness today.
Personally, I’m uncertain about that. Each situation is sort of unique.
Timex
19638
Have they?
Wagner Group didn’t even exist prior to 2016… They haven’t really been tested in any kind of real combat.
