The Spain/France/Italy vacation advice thread

I am spanish.

Heres some random comments:

  • Cities like Roma or Istambul have enough stuff to see for a whole visit, stay 7 days. Somebody planning to do two visit to italia may plan in one travel to visit Roma alone, in other … I don’t know… maybe the north?.

  • Barcelona is a cool city, I guess. But Paris is fantastic!. Is a amazing city, and everything good people say about Paris is true, even the weird crazy things romantic movies say about Paris. If you have to chose Paris or any other city of the world, choose Paris.

  • Madrid has El Muse del Prado, that has a lot of pictures of a guy killed by the romans. If you are into snuff movies, you will probably like soo much about dead.

  • The north of spain (galicia, cantabria, asturias, pais vasco) has much less sun than other parts, but the food is fantastic, really really good. I am spanish, and I would love to revisit these places for the food. So… If you want to taste awesome, visit Galicia.

  • The south of spain may have cool stuff, heriatege from the arabic invasion. The people there is special, too.

  • …Galicia is special too, is a bit like Florida in USA. Aliens marry people there, and abduct cows and that type of stuff. I think Galicia is the original “special” territory and Florida is just a copy.

I don’t know much about my own country, to be honest, so probably is a good idea to disregard this post. All everything else people is posting seems better :D

That’s the guy. The upside of the link I provided is it’s free! if you don’t want to buy or lug around a bunch of books, you can just take an MP3 player to listen at your leisure while you wander.

I would like to know more about this please.

Teiman just made my 10 days in Spain so much wierder.

When you go there just imagine every Spaniard you meet is just like him.

Hi, Peter. I’ve travelled to those countries extensively, so this is something that I know a bit about.

The first observation I’ll make is that this is quite a long trip! That’s good. However, you’re also visiting an awful lot (comparatively speaking) of places. Without getting all “You should replan your entire vacation!” on you, I think you should make sure to account for the amount of stress having that many destinations and that much inter-location travel is going to add to your trip, especially with three kids and 2 language changes in the middle of them. At each change, you’re going to have to deal with finding your way around a new city, finding your hotel, checking in to your hotel, finding that the hotel lost your reservation 20% of the time, etc. You also don’t say whether you speak Spanish, French, or Italian, and that may make a difference in your planning.

My advice would be this:

(1) Cut the trip number of stops down and think in terms of longer stretches in fewer bases. If you have a destination you really want to see, make it a day trip from your base. Bologna, for example, is maybe 90 minutes from Firenze by either train or car (probably less, but i’m allowing for friction). Why add a complete stop when you could stay in one and day-trip to the other?

(2) All of your destinations are urban. That’s cool. But, if it’s the sort of thing you like, you might consider planning one more pastoral base to explicitly allow for some down time. Particularly in northern Italy, Florence is very touristy, and there are lots of interesting options that have that Tuscan feel while being a lot less frenetic. I mean, I love Florence, you should go, but it’s the quintessential example of a good place to go into and then leave rather than a place you should sleep. Whereas when you’ve rented a tuscan villa for the week, you can still go there, or go to Siena, Montepulciano, or Lucca (which is lovely, by the way) or you could just say “You know what? Screw it”, and sit there with a glass of wine and do nothing. I suspect that particularly after a week with 3 kids in Paris, you might want some downtime.

(3) Venice is a sewer. Skip it. IMO.

(4) April in Rome will be wet and a little cold, but it’s the perfect time to go. Oranges will already be ripe. There’s more history in Rome than anywhere else in your trip, so my overall Italy advice is to favor Rome over the north.

(5) I’m not gonna try to talk you out of Paris, but ok yes I am. Go from Spain to Italy by making a broad sweep across the south of France. Visit the Dordogne, Provence, ride huge white horses through the wildlife preserves in the Camargue. Visit Avignon. Spend a day or 2 in Paris if you need to check the box off your list. But you don’t need Paris, because you’re going to Rome, and the coffee will be better in Rome.

(6) if you’re driving/renting a car, for the love of god pay extra for the comprehensive mega plus super bonus collision insurance. This is probably the best reason to take trains everywhere, which may conflict with my #2 above. But that’s the tradeoff.

I can give you specific restaurant recommendations for Firenze and Rome later in the thread once i find my notes.

You will have uncomfortable encounters with Roma vagabonds, but I don’t think it’s anything to panic about. It’s not worse than the typical encounter with homeless people in NYC or SF, as long as your kids know not to, y’know, wander off with them.

Yeah, I would rather stay 3 days in Lucca and make a day trip to Firenze than the other way around. In fact, that’s what I actually did, but admittedly it was because my sister lives in Lucca. Firenze is just a more fraught place to be in despite the amazing concentration of culture. Of course there’s not much to do in the touristy sense in Lucca besides visit a couple of churches and walk the walls, but that’s the point, in a sense, especially if you have been going to a lot of cities.

As an aside, I’ve never encountered Roma in Europe, myself. Or rather, I certainly have, but not knowing who they were, and not with any repercussions. There are by the way around one million Romani people in the US.

Thanks for all the advice up there. We’ve only just locked in a lot of our plans and I’ll put up our itinerary for criticism. Almost all of our stays are in self-contained apartments over a decent period of time, just to give us a chance to relax in one place. I don’t speak any of the languages so I’ll be glued to a phrasebook and relying on the kindness of others. Is it better to try and speak/butcher the language initially or just to say ‘I have no idea what to say, can you speak English please?’.
I’m not particularly fussed with Venice but attendance is mandatory.
Paris is too.
I’m freaked out with driving a car, so yes, it will be insured to the max and many, many photos will be taken before and after the hire. Just as an aside, the amount of rip-off horror stories I’ve encountered really makes Southern Europe a very unappealing destination. Are policing and regulations really that lax?

About my the north of italia.

My only trip to italia whas there. We had our first hotel in the “Lake di Como”… it was a really cool hotel and for whatever reason was the cheaper.
https://maps.google.com/maps?q=lake+como&hnear=Lake+Como&t=m&z=10

I really like peterb post. Except his dislike of paris. Paris has amazing architecture, cool museums and is a inspiring place, so…humm.

One note about spain:

Spanish is the second most talked language, and spain itself is almost a isle if you ignore the Pyrenees… but the Pyrenees are more like a natural wall. So the people here don’t feel like learning english, and even when they try to learn it, they don’t go any far, because in the spanish culture everything is translated to spanish (dubbed movies). Anyway If my small experience is right, even if you don’t talk the language of the country and very few people talk yours, is not a huge problem. I suppose in tourist areas you will find a lot more people that talk in english, and information in english.

I think it’s always worth making the effort, even if it’s not always appreciated.

I’m not particularly fussed with Venice but attendance is mandatory.

Oh well. Bring cologne and a handkerchief, and possibly antibiotics.

Paris is too.

I don’t hate Paris or anything, I just think the other destinations on your agenda are more interesting. But it’s your trip, not mine!

I’m freaked out with driving a car, so yes, it will be insured to the max and many, many photos will be taken before and after the hire. Just as an aside, the amount of rip-off horror stories I’ve encountered really makes Southern Europe a very unappealing destination. Are policing and regulations really that lax?

Yes. You should just go into it assuming that you are going to be ripped off. The way it works is that even though you’re renting from (let’s say) Hertz, really you’re renting from Hertz Italia, which is a separate, much less competent, company. Pretty much every trip I’ve taken to Italy (or France) works like this:

(1) Make arrangements and pay American Hertz (or whichever company, I’ve gone through this with various agencies). They send you a voucher.
(2) Get to Europe. Present the voucher. They ask for your credit card.
(3) Explain that you’ve already paid. Get assured that the card is just for incidentals, they totally won’t charge you for anything.
(4) Drive around.
(5) Return the car. Take very good care of every single piece of paper involved.
(6) Get home, find out that Italian or French Hertz double-charged you for the rental you had already paid for.
(7) Complain to American Hertz, faxing them all the documentation you have. After a month or so, they reverse the charges.

If there’s a way to avoid this, I have yet to discover it. Pretty much “make the arrangements with my country’s rental car office and rely on them to make it right after the fact” is my way of dealing with this. For what it’s worth, when I rented a car in Scotland, this didn’t happen, everything went swimmingly. So I think it really is a French/Italian thing (never rented in Spain, so I don’t know what the situation is there). (And for me driving on the left was as terrifying as driving on the right will be for you…)

Ugh. Pretty much the reason why whenever I do my Alps loop I’m going to start in Switzerland.

— Alan

Venice is fantastic. There’s just no other place like it. It’ll disappear eventually, so take lots of pictures so your great-great-great-grandchildren can see that their ancestor was there in the flesh before it sank into the ocean. The weather probably won’t be the best, but April isn’t a bad time to go. I was there in March, and it was cloudy and cool, but on the plus side it wasn’t badly crowded either. Expensive as hell, but you only live once, you know?

Seconding the strategy of taking day trips out from where you’re based. Some of these will be easiest by rail, if you can swing it. (Thinking of Parisian traffic.)

Consider taking a day here and there to decompress and do either a) nothing or b) just ordinary things. I spent one of my most enjoyable days in Vienna with a book—for homework, even—in a little park near the university. I don’t remember much of the Kunsthistorisches Museum, but I do remember sitting on a bench under a tree reading David Hume.

There’ll likely be a hump where everyone gets tired and fed up with travelling and culture shock. Très normale. You’ll get over it :)

In my experience people tend to appreciate if you at least make an effort at speaking their language, even if they speak English. Small stuff like being able to say “thanks” and “how much is this?” goes a long way, even if it’s just a courtesy.

+1 for a day trip to le Mont Saint Michel, since you have 7 days in Paris. It’s a nice city, but France has other nice stuff too. :)

We spanish consider a “guiri” (foreigner) tryiing to talk spanish the most cute thing ever.

Maybe it’s because I speak the language(s) but I’ve yet to encounter this problem either in N or S Europe. (Rented once in Italy, once in Spain, and once picked up in Germany and returned in Italy.) The first 2 times I used www.autoeurope.com but that was mainly so that I could pick the make and model of car. You can’t plan a driving trip to Tuscany and NOT drive an Alfa… Lately I just rent from National (Europcar over there) like I would here.

I probably just got lucky.

Re: Roma and crime in general. I think people who don’t live near a big city in the US (or OZ) go to Europe and have problems. If you have decent “city smarts” you’ll be fine. In gereral, Europe is very safe – there is more petty crime there (e.g. pickpocketing) then here but much less violent crime. This last summer when I went to Naples I heard so much badmouthing that I took my money belt (ID, credit/ATM cards and most cash under your pants and a little spending money in your pocket – passport in the safe in your hotel). I probably shouldn’t have bothered, everything felt very sleepy and relaxed.

Just watch out for purses and backpacks which are easily snatched, particularly on the Metro. Wear a money belt if it makes you feel better. I usually scan my passport and credit cards and email the images to myself. That way if they get stolen you can look up all the numbers and quickly get them cancelled and replaced.

One phrase that I found helpful in Spain was, “Como se dice…” followed by a lot of miming. By the end of the trip I was like Eddie Izzard.

And of course, the converse, que quiere decir en ingles…

Then why did they look so weird at me when I tried to order a taco and enchilada?

Possibly you mispronounced “la cuenta”.

Well, I traveled through Europe for 6 weeks, mostly by train, and the only language I spoke was English. I could say thank you in pretty much every language. I never had a problem with anyone, although probably the Germans were least patient with us.

And I did eat at a Burger King in Madrid. In 1980.