2761

Matt, I think that’s a very unsophisticated way of looking at the unique problem of TF2. I think the problem is much more subtle.

In Quake 2 Capture the Flag or Counter-Strike, all players start out essentially equal. They might use different weapons, and they might even prefer offense over defense. But none of these personal choices can really break the game. Even if no one on your team is playing defense, those players are all running around on relatively equal footing, trying to frag each other. As long as they’re doing that, they’re contributing to their team. Unless they’re literally AFK, the only real difference between one player or another is their skill at aiming a virtual weapon.

Team Fortress 2 arguably gives players too much freedom to be stupid. Players go Scout and try to attack 3 sentries. Players go Sniper and aim at a section of the map that no one ever visits. They go Heavy and then spend 45 seconds running to the action, only to get stabbed in the back before they ever fire a shot. They go Spy 8 times in a row but keep running into areas of heavy gunfire and go 3-4 minutes without a point. These players, through their own dumb choices, reduce themselves to nothing more than AFKs.

The beauty of Team Fortress 2 is that it allows all these choices, and I think they’re balanced really well. I love having all these strategic options to counteract whatever the opposing team is doing – I can switch to Demo to take out an SG; I can switch to Scout to move the cart; I can go Medic when our team really needs some ubers to break the defense. But the flip side is that it’s just too much rope for players to hang themselves with. Too much freedom results in too many players making choices that severely damage their team, in a way they never could in simpler multiplayer games.

I wish I could say I had a solution. Maybe Team Fortress 3 forces players to start out as soldiers and forces them to earn other classes? I don’t think people would like that, but I don’t know how else you get around the problem of people choosing playstyles that seriously hamper their team.

2762

I disagree that TF2 gives people any more rope to hang themselves than any other team game. Bad players are bad players, no matter what you’re playing. The crappy TF2 sniper is no more or less useful than a crappy player trying to play deathmatch in the middle of a CTF map.

Most of the TF2 maps are variations on capture-and-hold, which is especially forgiving of bad players. On a C-and-H map, if you’re fighting the enemy in any fashion, you’re contributing. Not so with CTF.

And I don’t see how forcing people to play as soldiers helps anything. A bad soldier is no better than a bad sniper. And, importantly, the TF2 classes are designed to require different skill sets–someone who can’t aim a rocket to save his life may still be an excellent heavy. Forcing someone to pay their dues in a class they suck at to unlock the one they’re good with doesn’t make sense.

2763

My wife has decided to try TF2, but to my knowledge has never played a fps. Anything I can do to make her introduction as welcoming as possible?

2764

You’re wrong. Sorry. :)

Team A is on offense on Badwater (10v10), with 3 snipers, 2 engineers and some other classes (but no medics). Team B is on defense with 4 engineers, 3 medics, and some offensive classes.

This game is over before it’s started. Team A will be raped. Red has all the pieces in place for a solid defense, while Blue has a ton of dead weight and zero ubers to turn things around. Blue will get demolished, strictly because of poor class choices.

It’s really not a hard formula to sort through. The more options you give people, the more things they’ll find to distract themselves with outside of the core gameplay goals. TF2’s depth is part of what makes it great, but also can be a huge drawback. You can’t even begin to compare it to simpler games like team deathmatch.

2765

So? Team A is on offense with ten clones of me. Team B is on defense with five people who are any damned good. This game is over before it’s started.

Yes, TF2 allows you to screw yourself and your team through bad class choice. Given all the other ways you can screw yourself, I don’t see that this is a significant change from any other team FPS.

Now, I’ll grant that team deathmatch is a lot harder to screw up–but team deathmatch is barely a team game at all. You can have ten scrubs on team A vs. a lone expert on team B, and team B will win.

2766

Encourage her to play Medic. It should give her a chance to get a feel for how the other classes operate (by watching them while she supports them) while being a tremendous help. I think Medic is the best class for not feeling like dead weight while you’re on the learning curve because contributing is a little easier than with other classes.

If she needs a change of pace/wants to kill things, Heavy is probably a good choice. It’s much less dependent on precision aiming and twitchy maneuvering than other classes.

In fact, if you guys are planning on playing together, just being a heavy/medic combo and switching roles occasionally is probably the best way to introduce her to the game.

2767

I had that problem. I fixed it by setting the “clientport” command-line variable to different values (and I had to do it for each steam profile) on each computer.

Guide

2768

Awesome! I will send this his way. Thanks a bunch.

2769

Pyro is also a good choice if she likes to hide in corners innocently then charge in to burn the heretics.

2770

And if she doesn’t, dump her. One of my greatest pleasures in gaming is jumping the balcony on 2fort and catching five or six attackers from behind with the pyro. How’s that well-organized plan going NOW BITCHES??!

H.

2771

Pyro’s are the lamest class ever. And achievements are retarded.

And i say that because of that stupid backburner of instant kill. That i can only get by grinding stupid achievements.

I have dozens of hours of play and only one unlocked weapon for any class…

2772

Medic is my most played class.

Pyros are one of the medic’s worst enemies. The blutsager (leech needle gun) and back pedaling means I have a decent chance surviving or killing a single pyro.

Spies? I got an ubersaw and not afraid to use it.

Demomen thought… HATE THEM. The nades mean you can die even if you are at maximum heal range around a corner, while the demoman is sitting by a dispenser 200 feet away.

Edit: Pyros are the reason the team needs one single heavy as a deterrent. One of my greatest pleasures playing as a heavy is not the killing. It’s seeing all the enemy pyros scatter and runaway until they get reinforcements once I get into their LOS. RESPECT THE SAMVICH.

2773

The achievements are a bit annoying because they’re tied to the unlocks, i.e. gamer tax. Fortunately, the unlocks are generally not straight-up improvements. Well, okay, except for the medic’s Blutsauger.

The Backburner is definitely not an instant kill, especially against moving targets. There are also plenty of times when I’ve managed to flank enemies and wish I had an airblast. Speaking of instant kills and knocking people around, I need to remember to use the taunt-kill more often when ambushing people. (It’s a trap!)

  • Alan
2774

I agree with this sentiment. The unlocks are not worth stressing out over or wasting time doing some cheese achievement map.

The airblast is awesome for repelling ubers. If, say, an enemy ubered pyro is rushing a sentry, crouch and aim a blast at his head. You will lift him off the ground, then the knockback from the sentry propel him upward so quickly he will bounce him off the invisible skybox ceiling. Unfortunately, you don’t get points for it, so of course no pyro is ever willing to take the 50 or so damage to preserve a sentry and nullify an uber at the same time. Not a bitter engineer, not me!

2775

The airblast is also awesome for winning Payload maps. 20 seconds and 5 feet to go, but 4 Red defenders parked on the cart? Airblast wins the map.

Of course, you’ll get destroyed if you run in alone, so this requires other people are actually charging the cart and engaging the enemy, and not running away to hide. Like snipers tend to.

BUT I’M NOT BITTER AT ALL

2776

Nah, Airblast is a MEDIC’s best friend. I’ve watched an ubered pyro come charging up to me (medic) and the pyro I’m healing, and my friendly pyro just continually poofs him up into the air. He can juggle that pyro for the entire uber. I can easily heal him faster than the enemy uber pyro can damage him.

Fun fun.

Of course, it’s NOT so fun when it’s MY uber’d pyro…

SamF7

2777

I just read on the TF2 wiki that the backburner doesn’t get random crits. I usually pick the regular flamethrower/air blast anyway because I find it way more fun to use, but, well there’s another (minor) reason to not use the backburner.

2778

We need play on the same servers, because this is my single favorite thing to do on defense.

2779

You should never be using the backburner. It negates one of your primary jobs as a pyro, disrupting ubers.

2780

There’s at least one really good place to use the backburner: on defense at the start of Badwater Basin. Once Blue starts rolling the cart through the tunnel, it’s easy to drop down from the clifftop above to the tunnel entrance and kill a bunch of them from behind if they’re all looking forward.

Which happens more than it should. It’s quite fun. :)