2881

Because you can generally tell where the snipers are/will be in any given map and plan for that. Snipers are also making themselves very vulnerable when they snipe - how often have you been sniped, and turned around on the next life and killed that same sniper?

What’s next? An engineering building that polymorphs? How about a Demoman net? This is the start of an uncomfortable walk towards Team Fortcraft.

I won’t even get into how it breaks the uber mechanic, which is one of the very few effective things against elaborate defensive structures.

Games should never take control away from the player except, perhaps, as a direct result of that player’s own action(ie, your critical failure causes you to miss a round).

In a surprising turn of events, Big blue beats Kasparov in the 12th move by taking Kasparov’s turn away and then checkmating him

2882

Try life, now, as a Medic.

First uber: Pyro juggled me for the entire length of uber. My charge never looked back.
Second uber: Another pyro Juggle. Lovely.
Third Uber: Bonked not once, but TWICE during the uber. My charge yelled at me why I didn’t keep the uber on him.
Fourth Uber: Another bonk. At least I got 3-4 seconds out of uber out of it since it was a short-bonk.

I suspect the number of medics is going to start dropping radically. Two classes now have the ability to stop an uber dead in their tracks.

SamF7

2883

I’m really unhappy with this pack. Very few of the achievements are things you might unlock in normal play, and a good portion can’t even be gotten without unlocking things. The bat is so powerful, and I want to try it, but I can’t, unless I go to an achievement farm server. I really hate unlocks in general, this release is definitely giving me a sour taste.

2884

Yeah, these achievements do seem like a step back from the more manageable heavy and pyro ones. 2004 kills as scout? Cap the intel 3 times in one round? Yeah right.

2885

Ya know, I would have loved to get in on this… If I could have used a program to get the unlocks for every class, and had the items banned for a week afterwards, I would have been ecstatic…

As it stands, I don’t know if I’ll ever play TF2 again. I took a break before all of the big class updates (yeah, I haven’t even played the new game modes!), and now the unlocks are a significant barrier to entry… I’ve never been able to play games where I’m a second-class citizen.

This is the same for both my brothers… why log on to ‘earn’ equal opportunities when I only have 2-3 hours once a week, when I can play Tribes2Next, Counterstrike, L4D, PVKII, etc. and be on a level playing field.

2886

I have to agree. I went through the scout list, ticked off the achievements that are generally achievable. Some are just grinds, which is fair enough, each pack has them, but some are just incredibly hard. “The Cycle” for instance I know I’ll be spending a lot of time on 2Fort trying to get.

At least the pyro and medic achievements were fairly straight forward. Some were/are incredibly hard, but to get to the third unlock wasn’t all that difficult and didn’t rely on the unlocked items to get. The heavy pack I’m still working through, and need to give it a bit more love.

Also, (I tend to play pub games) a team that has more medics tends to have a greater chance of winning, provided the medics can stay alive and do a decent job. Most games I play though rarely have more than one medic, most of my game time as a result has been as medic. Getting bounced by pyros isn’t fun, and somewhat annoying, but one thing I’ll do is hold the uber until I have some people around to keep the pyros distracted as much as possible. Unfortunately, it is difficult to communicate that to pre-pubescent score orientated simple minded fools who see you have a full uber charge and suddenly assume they’re going to get the uber and find themselves getting killed.

With the scouts though, it is a different and somewhat depressing story. I hate scouts. Being bonked is just a cheap kill. However, in time I’ll probably learn, and get a little more used to it. After all, it has barely been a week and, well, speaking for myself, I still need to get used to TF2, and just how new it feels again. The next pack will probably result in the same thing again. At least the numbers of scouts has dropped off a fair bit now on the games, to make things more enjoyable. Now sentries aren’t racking up massive kill numbers, and the attacking team isn’t losing the game at the first capture point.

I should add that another favourite is people who think I’m their personal medic, going in all kamikaze style, beat up, and demanding to be healed constantly, and having the player get upset when I’m not healing him in preference for say, a heavy who might be low on health and holding the line. I knew I was in a good game once when I asked the group at the start who should preferably get the uber (it was the payload gold map) and one guy said “You’re a medic, do whatever you want.” I did, and it was one of the best games I had played.

Power to the medics!

2887

I play almost exclusively Medic - 380+ hours. That’s the best medic advice I’ve heard. I find I have MUCH more effective ubers when “I” determine who, when, where to uber.

SamF7

2888

So far, I’m not really digging this update.

Mostly, the Sandman is annoying as hell – the stun seems overpowered, and since every team has 4 or 5 scouts doing nothing but hitting baseballs, every game is filled with people getting bonked left and right. The other unlockables seem decently balanced, but the Sandman is a long-range weapon with no real counter and no major tradeoff on many maps. It’s really hurting the feel of games right now.

Also, the Egypt map is terrible. It’s too easy for engineers to collapse on the final point and put up a near-inpenetrable defense. pl_swift still needs some minor tweaks, but it’s a far superior map and should be included with the next update.

Finally, a tip to medics: When you’re attacking the final point on Gold Rush or Badwater and need to take down some SGs, FIND A DEMO. Heavys take too long to run to the SGs; Pyros are too succeptible to pushback and can’t kill at long range; Soldiers don’t do enough damage. A good demo can take out 2, even three SGs if he knows where they are, even while being bounced around. I’m constantly frustrated when I’m sitting at the top of the scoreboard and a medic with a full charge refuses to uber me. Half the time, I’ll yell to activate, he won’t, I’ll die, run back, and he’ll still have the charge, unused. WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR?

2889

Agreed on both points after playing quite a bit over the weekend. The bonk is overdue for a nerf and Egypt is no Steel or Badwater Basin. 3 engies and a couple of demos can really seal up the last point on the first and third sub-maps.

2890

Agreed on both counts. The Sandman makes the scout a hard-counter to the uber, which goes against the stated goals of the unlocks (by impinging on class roles). I might complain less if the stun-effect required a precise head-shot, or if it didn’t completely immobilize/disable the target.

As for the Egypt map, it doesn’t seem to be optimized properly, to say nothing of the mediocre layout. It is possible for the offense to make headway, but it relies a lot on early scout/spy pressure to keep the defense from entrenching. Ubers just aren’t effective anymore with the Sandman being lobbed through those chokepoint doorways.

  • Alan
2891

A good demo can take out 2, even three SGs if he knows where they are, even while being bounced around. I’m constantly frustrated when I’m sitting at the top of the scoreboard and a medic with a full charge refuses to uber me.
Yeah, a good demo can do all of that, but a bad or mediocre one frequently leads to an unsatisfactory outcome. When the skill levels of my teammates are an unknown quantity, ubering a heavy or a pyro is a safer bet.

If I’m on a team with people I’m not used to playing with, I try to identify two or three primary assets who generally get buffed, healed, and ubered first. The scoreboard tends to be unreliable for identifying these players, though I occasionally use it as a secondary indicator.

I should add that another favourite is people who think I’m their personal medic, going in all kamikaze style, beat up, and demanding to be healed constantly, and having the player get upset when I’m not healing him in preference for say, a heavy who might be low on health and holding the line.
Being healed is a privilege. If someone’s being a dick about it just cut them off entirely. Right now I’m refusing to heal scouts because I think the sandman is ridiculous, and it amuses me to single out people to not be healed.

2892

I’ve yet to see the attacking team win on Egypt, the final CP is just so easy to defend.

2893

If you’re a good medic, there should be no such thing as a teammate of unknown quantity by the time you reach the end of the map. As a medic, one of your main jobs is to figure out who knows what they’re doing so you don’t waste ubers. There are usually only 6-7 offensive players to pick from, so between watching the scoreboard and spectating players while you’re dead, it shouldn’t be hard to figure out who to uber.

Or to be more specific: when we get to the end of Badwater or Gold Rush and I’m on top of the scoreboard, any medic with half a brain should be looking to uber me to clear out the final SGs. And yet 19 out of 20 times, they seem to go out of their way NOT to. It’s ridiculous.

I’ll take this one step further and say you know your team is awful when they can’t defend that point. I’ve seen that point capped 3 or 4 times, and the losing teams were just terrible.

2894

Since we are talking about ubers (and I’m not going to reread this entire thread) what is up with ubering soliders? As a medic, I try to avoid doing that unless my life is in immediate danger.

Even though I play mainly as a solider, I cringe at the thought of being ubered what with the long rocket reload time and stumpy leg gait. Please don’t waste it on me (the solider)! Any other class I’ll take it.

Am I the only medic who feels this way? I don’t really have a preference of who I uber as long as they are a demo, pyro or heavy.

2895

I agree. Soldiers are generally a bad pick to uber, especially since engys can repair their gear as fast as soldiers can damage it. Pyros, Heavys and Demos are all usually better choices to uber.

On the other hand, soldiers are one of the few classes that are worth giving a Kritzkrieg to, because they can do nice damage from long range while keeping the medic out of harm’s way. Too many medics with the Kritzkrieg don’t seem to understand that it doesn’t make you invulnerable and is useless for something like trying to take out SGs.

2896

[QUOTE=sluggo;1654159]If you’re a good medic, there should be no such thing as a teammate of unknown quantity by the time you reach the end of the map. As a medic, one of your main jobs is to figure out who knows what they’re doing so you don’t waste ubers. There are usually only 6-7 offensive players to pick from, so between watching the scoreboard and spectating players while you’re dead, it shouldn’t be hard to figure out who to uber.
QUOTE]

Wow, sluggo, you copy my medic-playstyle exactly. I play almost exclusively medic. Hitting <TAB> to glance at the scoreboard is something I do a LOT. It’s CRITICAL to not waste a valuable uber on a player who isn’t sure what to do with it.

For folks who are new to the game, realize what that means: The medic’s uber is HIS responsibility, NOT yours. If I uber you, and you DON’T do anything with it - THATS OKAY!! Manytimes I’ll pop an uber simply because I’m about to die; or YOU’RE about to die (usually you don’t see the three stickies under your feet - I DO!). It’s MY JOB to determine (via scoreboard, map, situation, uber’d-class, etc) if you SHOULD do anything with the uber. Besides, if in doubt, follow your medic. 90% of the time the medic should lead an uber to draw off turret fire to free up your movement.

Never feel bad about “wasting” an uber. I would prefer you to just continue to play normally than feel impelled to “CHARGE FORWARD!” and get me killed in the process. Pyros…I’m looking at you.

Medic Request: With 2 seconds to go in the uber and you charging ahead, will you PLEASE turn around and look at me? Most of the enemy team by now is right on my heels, just licking their chops to swipe my lowly 150HP medic-butt dead when the uber expires. Free kills if you would just TURN AROUND BEFORE THE UBER EXPIRES!!

(Thank You. This public service announcement has been brought to you by the organization of TF2 Medics) - SamF7

2897

Relying on a medic at all in a pub game is an utter crapshoot, unfortunately. Most of the ones I’ve played with love to soak you with healing when they have 100% charge, make you think you’re going to get the uber, run to the door with you, and then pull back, allowing you to get minced. Generally I’m towards the top end of the scoreboard, and contributing to taking down SGs and so on, so I tend to feel a bit put out by that. As such I tend to play with my friends, which means we can heal each other with a bit more consistency and it ends up being a lot more fun.

I’m also going to say that this pack is not really to my taste. I am enjoying bombing around as scout and having pretty decent success, though I have only got two achievements as I refuse to grind them - and a lot of them are pure grind. 1000 double jumps, anyone? Yaaaaaaaaaawn.

The bat, too, has to be nerfed soon. It’s absolutely ridiculous. My friend was regularly killing groups of three heavier classes, by stunning one, force-a-naturing the other quickly, stunning the third, reloading the force-a-nature and finishing the one he stunned first, then batting the other. These weren’t scrubs, either, and they would have minced him in fairly short order otherwise. It’s kind of ruined the balance. I think the ball should function as an SG distraction device, with a comedy transponder or something stuck to it, and possibly a minor ranged damage element to another player. This would give the scout another tool against SGs (the drink is of marginal use, in my opinion) and stop all the ludicrous bonking (ahem).

2898

The 1000 double jumps achievement is great. Because you can add it to your HUD with the achievement tracker and it will ding every time you double jump. And that rocks.

2899

Simple things and all that!

2900

The flip side is people who think they’re entitled to an uber and then charge recklessly out into the open. Then they swear at you for being a bad medic, which is of course means that they go on the “do-not-heal” list. It’s almost as bad as the people who either call for medic needlessly, or the people who don’t call for medic and then complain when you don’t heal them. Basically, a lot of players suck at communication.

  • Alan