It took me over 2 hours to get my first “drop” (not really an accurate term, since you simply get it and it’s not related to scoring a kill or point or anything really). In the next hour I got two more. Jarate is fun!
Played another two hours. Nothing. Not even dupes!
Jab
3123
Great matches tonight, managed to grab jarate and the cloak and dagger. The cloak and dagger may be my favorite item in TF2 as it has made me halfway decent as the spy.
HRose
3124
So they switched an achievement-based system with a time-based one that works completely behind the scenes?
If that’s their choice they could as well used the classic experience/level one. It would give players at least some decent feedback on their progress and feel more natural, and they could as well direct it so that “better performance” = “more experience”.
I think they should have kept the achievement system, and add the random system on top of it. It is true for the old classes, but not for the new classes.
This would benefit the players who want to work into a specific goal, while benefiting the players who couldn’t get any items before.
Played for about 6 hours since update, got one drop, which was the jarate and is pretty sweet. The drop rate still feels low to me.
Everybody seems to ignore the nicest consequence of the new drop system:
Normal servers are actually balanced between the classes.
We don’t have 12 snipers vs. 12 spies. I’m elated that I can play any class and possibly earn unlocks for the sniper (my favorite class) while doing it. I’m doubly elated that I don’t have to go back and try to earn medic achievements that are nigh-impossible to get. I played for maybe an hour last night and got the Cloak & Dagger and the Ubersaw while playing mostly as a Sniper and a Heavy.
I love the drop system, and I can’t wait for it to work right.
I’ve gotten 4 - 1 scout, 1 medic, 1 sniper, and 1 spy. But then I’ve been playing a lot just to get all the pyro unlocks on my own.
sluggo
3129
I don’t know what servers you’re playing on, but I’ve been hopping on various public servers, and – as I was expecting – teams have way too many snipers, which singlehandedly kills Payload maps. Red has too many snipers, and Blue wins in a cakewalk. Blue has too many snipers, and they can’t get past the first stage.
But this influx of classes happens with every release, so I’m resigned that matches are borked for the next two weeks. It’ll clear itself up eventually. I hope.
I haven’t noticed that at all, but I only play on one or two servers, so maybe it’s just those that are fine.
Jab
3131
Time to admit how bad I’m at the scout and ask for help, I think it’s my weakest class overall and a benefit of the new item drop system means that I can still get the items without the achievements. Does anyone have any words of wisdom for playing as the Scout?
The best tip I ever got as a Scout was to focus on staying alive and picking off wounded enemies. I haven’t played much of him since the update, though, so I may need to re-learn a few things. All of the advice in that video is good.
We’ve got some stellar scouts on the GWJ servers, so join the public one (68.232.163.186:27015) and you can learn many weeknights. I’m not great, but here are a couple common characteristics that I’ve gleaned from the good scout players:
[ul]
[li]Have good accuracy in close quarters. This seems like a no-brainer, but because the shotgun is dramatically weaker from distance, not swinging wildly due to mouse sensitivity is key. The pistol is a good weapon for harassment, but the real damage is always in the shotgun.[/li][li]Target isolated players. The scout’s low health makes it tough to live long in a crowd of enemies, but his mobility by contrast makes him formidable in one-on-one battles. Corollary: target medics who are actively healing, as they sometimes can’t choose between self-defense or getting their target to look back and defend them.[/li][li]Stay on the move. Whether you’re circling players to make a difficult target or changing distances in order to keep opponents using ineffective weapons (e.g. close in on soldiers when they use rockets, but retreat once they pull out the shotgun), keep moving. Try not to get worked into corners, as you may need several options for an exit strategy.[/li][li]If you can’t kill, maim. Even in a one-on-one situation with the element of surprise, sometimes you just get unlucky and can’t take an enemy down completely. If you know you can’t make the kill, do what damage you can and get out before the enemy can react.[/ul][/li]EDIT: Yeah, I have seen that video, and it is worth watching.
I agree that it’s nice to see class balance (aside from people who get goodies and insist on trying them out immediately). However, randomness doesn’t cut it for me; call me old-fashioned, but I enjoy some form of cause and effect. If the drops were tied to more common experiences – getting dominations/revenges, kill streaks, etc. – as a complement to the more infrequent achievement-based unlock system, I could get behind it a bit more. Trading items seems unnecessary as well, since I’m not going to be stupid enough to delete items and shouldn’t be losing them any other way.
#1 rule with the Scout: Don’t commit. Flail on them while they are disoriented, but once the enemy sets his feet, run while side-double-jumping away.
#2 rule: Avoid pyros.
That said, I find in video games nothing, NOTHING as adrenaline-pumping as running with the intel as scout. Knowing that speed is your ony friend, back to the enemy, freedom up ahead . . . ah. Some of the best gameplaying time I can recall.
H.
What a rollercoaster ride!
From a week of highly strategical constant marketing hype, to the current complete fallout of game design.
A big slap to Valve’s face, who is so proud of its pioneering statistical methods. Yes, on the paper, the current method gives more items to players averagely. However, every time someone else receives an item, rests of the players are reminded how helpless they are. To the players, the complete randomness in the system becomes a constant torment to them.
I wish Valve has learned well from this, and stop digging their heads too deep into the spreadsheets. The game is played by human after all.
p.s. Personally, I want to believe that the Greek intern has forgotten to put the milestones into spy/sniper achievement list. I don’t see any reasons why a hybrid system isn’t used.
Agreed. I love the new achievements and it’s fun to play to get those. It’s a morale killer, however, when items are handed out in what seems to be a completely random manner.
I’m far from a hardcore player, but I’ve put a few hours in since the update. I’ve received one item, which I already owned as result of scout achievements. In the meantime, pubbies are getting the new sniper and spy gear without even playing the classes.
Valve’s trying out something new, which is always welcome, but this definitely needs some tuning. I’ve got guys on my friends list who’ve set up local servers over the weekend and are just idling there, presumably accumulating new gear w/o even playing the game. That’s worse than an achievement server IMO.
I’ve got to completely disagree here. The random option on top of the achievements has really brought the fun back for me, especially as a medic (which was a pretty hopeless set). I’ve never felt helpless by someone else getting an item. I instead get “Oh man, I hope that unlocks next.”
Now as a person who had no damn unlocks, maybe that’s a big factor, and I’m betting little to no unlock is the common theme amongst the more casual players that made people play less out of feeling hopeless for keeping up despite the pretty good balance of the new items.
The system does need some tuning, but I feel like it’s done well so far and should get better. Maybe it’s just coincidence, but I unlocked a few items yesterday in a session where I was really doing well for once (even a few achievements), so I doubt it’s JUST random.
Mike-I don’t see how it’s worse than the achievement servers. It gets the same end result I suppose, but probably takes much longer to do it and isn’t guaranteed this time. People will still do the achievement runs, which I think should result in an item-yank myself, but I’m cranky about things like that.
bloo
3139
Zeke, I don’t think you can actually earn the new unlocks through achievements - the Snoper and Spy do not have the Milestone achievements the other classes have.
While obviously, the initial roll-out of this new system has been rocky, and it was not well-explained to players (not that many would have actually read it anyway), I think this is a pretty bold choice for Valve. They are essentially challenging Rewarding The Grind as a method of growing and retaining player interest.
Initially, they were Of the Grind with the Milestone achievements: 10 for Unlock 1, etc. Now, just play the game and the unlocks, which are aimed at selling games to new players, will come regardless of how you play. The achievements are still there but are no longer a positive feedback tool rewarding the grinder.
I applaud the experiment and hope it is successful.
This is the difference between playing the lottery and playing a competitive game. If I wanted a slot machine, I’d go gamble.
I don’t mind a system that rewards casual players as well as veterans, but it should have some basis in skill. Kill/assist streaks, moving up a certain number of places on the roster, dominations – these are skill-based milestones which any player can achieve. Can a skill-based system be thwarted by a lack of competition? Yes, but Valve needs to learn to deal with it. Some people will always be trying to game the system; even the current almost-not-a-system has led to AFK-only servers.
