3521

And not even hats and items they got legit! If I got things taken away I’d earned while playing I’d be pissed, but I don’t see how you can get mad when you lose items you cheated to get.

Quat, yeah, it was a different occurrence, but it was still a third party program being used to bullshit the system into giving you things. I think the root of the issue comes down to a third-party program affecting their servers.

3522

The entire thing is hilarious, and the rage from the people who used the idle program is even more hilarious - but it’s hard to see how it’s cheating. Unless, of course, you think playing on idle servers that had maps that injured you every couple of seconds to keep you from disconnecting were cheating too, in which case there are going to be a lot of upset QT3’rs, judging by my friends list.

3523

I would recommend Squee and ZekeDMS watching the video I posted.

“A Class Divided”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCjDxAwfXV0

It is really interesting and surprisingly correlates to the situation here.

3524

Quoting this in hopes people do view it. As a sociology student I have read and seen similar behavior in my previous classes, but I had not yet seen this video and it was exceptional. Hopefully it helps others to understand what is going on as well.

I still wonder about the future of TF2 after this. Not that it will disappear or be a terrible game in and of itself, but how the community will treat each other now that there is a distinct visual difference between two groups who feel very strongly for their side. Will Halo users stop wearing them to avoid discrimination? Or will they wear it proudly and each group continually discriminate and create a hostile/unfriendly environment.

I may have to log in tomorrow, simply to observe for myself out of my own curiosity.

On a side note, and sifting through a lot of senseless posts, the one thing I can make out that helps to cause the controversy is the way the post is worded in two sections. First, those with halos ‘took the moral high road’ according to the blog post, which seems to be putting others on edge. Especially with in game idlers being part of this moral high road, yet essentially doing the same thing. Secondly, as Valve admits in their post, they did not have a policy in place for this.

So aside from simply differentiating players through a visual reward, they admit there has not been a policy in place regarding it, leading users to believe it is safe since nothing has been done sooner.

Please note I am not agreeing, just sifting through all the crap from both sides and summarizing for those who can’t understand why people are acting this way. All I know is it sucks to see the community continually degenerate with each change, as it does with many other games. Forgetting TF2 a second, it is simply scary how often this behavior does occur for a variety of games, and I can only imagine how it will be another 10 years from now.

3525

Honestly I think that’s reading waaay too far into this. I think the large majority of people will view this whole thing with mild amusement - I know I will - and just get on with playing. Plus people who have halos won’t wear them all the time by any means, so telling who is a goody-good and who’s a cheating scumbag is impossible.

Nothing much will change in other words.

3526

I find this whole debacle interesting.

I stopped playing TF2, because I was bored/found other more interesting games to occupy my time.
I returned when they’d added enough unlocks to pique my interest, but I was about to quit again, when I realized the time I’d have to put in to get any that I wanted to play with - and I’m only talking about unlocks that change gameplay, hats are a nifty bonus like achievements, that I’d probably be delighted to have, but don’t care enough about to play the game longer than I otherwise would.
The ability to idle while I was at work or with my family made me want to continue playing the game.
Take away my stuff, and I’ll quit. Not in anger, but in boredom.

I might be back at some point when new maps or whatever is released… but if finding a server where people don’t bitch at me or give me grief for not wearing some halo becomes an issue - I’ll be gone for good. I hate playing online with random people enough allready, if Valve wants to make me wear some mark so people will be more likely to annoy me, while playing, I’ll do something else.

3527

Hah. I really don’t think you’re going to be encountering a problem for not wearing a halo.

3528

That’s what the Nazi said when they made the Jews wear armband. I kid. I kid.

To add a taste of irony on top of this, the guy who made the idle map has a halo.
http://forums.tf2maps.net/showpost.php?p=101699&postcount=30

3529

Probably not - angry forum threads is no gauge on how reality will play out. Just saying that I think Valves reaction (and the original system) is stupid… not as stupid as being really really angry about this, but stupid nonetheless.

3530

Well, also, the only anger I’ve heard of has been on the side of the idlers. Not everyone who got the halo is going to be wearing it.

Although immediately after telling you not to worry, I just noticed the PC Gamer server has had “Idlers unwelcome” added to its name.

3531

That’s the first rule isn’t it? Never use the product?

Anyway, this whole brouhaha is a total storm in a teacup. I mean, really? The unlock system was kind of broken and silly, yes, but it was never integral to the game (or if things were, like the ubersaw or blutsauger which are pretty much the only required unlocks, they’re unlockable via achievements). I never idled but I doubt I would care that much even if I did.

As for the halo discrimination thing, a lot of people on the internet are kind of dicks, and have perspective issues, so it wouldn’t surprise me if it happened somewhere. But I would be very surprised if I ever came across it when I was actually playing, and if it did I would just go to a new server. I can’t see it being a problem on RPS, PC Gamer, Hampshire Heavies or any of the other reputable servers for us eurofolk.

3532

I still think it’s awesome how outraged people are at the entire existence of the unlock system. It’s the most perfect system possible – all you do is play the game and you get presents. But playing the game is apparently the last thing these people want to do.

3533

A system that rewards players for simply being present, and players will simply be present. This is no rocket science. How can people not understand this?

3534

Most random system possible does not equal most perfect possible in many people’s books. I don’t mind it and losing some of my stuff is hardly a big deal (more excuses to play again!), but I really wish there was something you could do with worthless duplicates.

3535

I would imagine people would be more inclined to agree but many are still not receiving the items they want in game, or this wouldn’t be a problem with this amount of rage. How much time do you need to Valve so you can give your character a little visual interest?

Through using the idle program for many many hours, and playing the game normally, I had never received a hat and the weapons were minimal, most being stuff I had already earned via achievements. So while I was a flagged player, it didn’t affect me, since I lost nothing of importance anyways.

That’s the problem though. They created this system and added ‘rare,’ items. People are going to want said items no matter what, just like people want achievements despite them adding no real value, but the likelihood of obtaining one is very slim. In my own personal conspiracy theory way, I believe it has something to do with the accounts themself. Some people are getting a ton of hats, while others have yet to receive one since they were introduced. I don’t believe it is intentional, but something clearly isn’t right imo.

The post on the TF2 blogs hints that you will be able to via a crafting system.

“We realize there is a high level of demand for items, and we’re still working on systems to allow you to find them in new ways (via Trading, and crafting duplicates into desired items).”

While it would be great if I can control it into making the hat I actually would like to have, I almost find it disturbing that an FPS game will involve a crafting system. In all my years of playing shooters, I would never have imagined this as part of the genre, so it will be interesting to see how it goes.

3536

I’m sorry, I only hang out with Sneetches with Stars upon thars.

3537

I’d have more sympathy for idlers if they had actually done something to earn the items that were taken away from them. But they were, by definition, idling.

And they increased the hat drop rate, so everybody should be happy.

3538

It could be as simple as trading in a certain number of items for another random drop. It keeps things random, but it takes some irritation out of getting 100% useless dupes and makes clearing the trash out of your inventory somewhat less of a chore.

3539

Outside of the game. Valve isn’t punishing all idlers. Plenty of people that fired up TF2, jumped on a idle server, and sat all day are not getting their items taken away. I think that’s the main beef.

Personally, I couldn’t care less. I don’t play TF2 enough to even accomplish most of the Achievements. I’ve never gotten a hat. I’ve only gotten a few of the weapon unlocks.

Oddly enough, my interest in TF2 began to wane when Valve decided to reward people that could play the game more than me. (Grinding Achivements is still a measure of time played in my view.) I have this same feeling for any multiplayer shooter that unlocks weapons based on grinding.

3540

I can understand why people are upset with Valve for cracking down on those who received random items via external idling apps, since they paid good money to have Valve add random item drops to the game, and they’re not obtainable by any other means.