The Third Doctrinal War -- Stardock, Reiche/Ford, and Star Control

As I’ve been trying to avoid getting any specific images in my head about Trump’s sexual proclivities, for the last few days I’ve dedicated the time I’d normally read the day’s news to seek out where else this issue is being discussed. While most of it has only really served to exercise the eye rolling and mouse scrolling muscles I did come across a glimmer of light that maybe can lead to an end to this dark tunnel.

From the UQM forums:
http://forum.uqm.stack.nl/index.php?topic=7015.msg77225#msg77225

A summary of Stardock’s position from that post:

"1. Prevent any chance of this nonsense from ever happening again. We don’t want, 3 years from now, to be dealing with Dogar posts complaining that the Tywom Juggernaut is too similar to some ship they made or demanding that we take features out of our games. If Star Control: Origins becomes a sensation, we don’t want to be getting threatening letters demanding that we better pay up because they think they have some right to some element of our games.

  1. Recognize the damage they have caused and the confusion they have caused and compensate us for that. We’ve lost months of marketing time and good will because of the confusion they created in the market (you yourself saw that guy’s Reddit post, and yea, that’s devastating to their case). And I’m not even getting into the public circus of the lawsuit itself. It will take market experts to determine how much in sales this has caused but I would guess probably around 5% at least.

  2. Recognize that we own the Star Control trademark and that means that yes, we will be associating it with the classic games. Star Control: Origins is just as much of a Star Control game as any other Star Control game.

  3. Cease associating any future games with Star Control. That means no calling their game a sequel to it and it also means they need to come up with a different game title because Ghosts is already too associated with it. I don’t think think many people would object to them picking a different title.

  4. Do not attempt any action that tries to block us from supporting the Ur-Quan Masters communities or any other well established Star Control related communities."

There’s obviously room to work between the two parties. Their goals are fairly aligned and they really just need to work out the borders of what each can do. (This would be a great situation for non-binding arbitration in order to work out a settlement, which can be done under an agreement of confidentially from both parties to address that concern).

I’d assume the damages thing is going to be a sticking point. All I can say there is my hope and opinion on what’s proper is a well defined “status quo ante bellum” situation that wouldn’t involve damages on either side.

Everything else in there is fairly reasonable and aligned with P&F’s offer. It’s mainly a question of defining boundaries.

Starting with the easiest one:

“5. Do not attempt any action that tries to block us from supporting the Ur-Quan Masters communities or any other well established Star Control related communities.”

Since P&F want to give all the source to the community that one should be easy. From their offer, statements, and the claims Stardock has made about their demands it seems the only place where P&F would object to something that could fall under this terminology is not allowing user made carbon copies of ships or anything from SC1&2 to be distributed. P&F’s right in this respect can be defined and clearly limited in this area. If there is any sort of publishing of ship designs to a community they can request ships that are clear copies to be removed. The obligation would not in any way be on Stardock to “police” things, but if P&F notice things that are clear violations they can request them to be taken down. If Stardock feels the system is being abused and requests are being made to take down things that aren’t obvious copies there can be a binding arbitration clause to settle disputes.

This feeds into the first statement, that P&F don’t interfere with any SC:O or any future games made under the trademark. Stardock is concerned that if their copyright isn’t clearly defined P&F could object to anything remotely similar to a design or story element from SC2. P&F are undoubtedly concerned that if the specification is too tight Stardock could just create the same aliens or ships with different names or some other obvious rip off of elements of the universe they created. A clear definition like Stardock can’t use the names, races, ships, and backstory from SC1&2 in the games or on their website should be doable.

For the third statement, that Stardock can associate with the prior games; For marketing purposes they could of course mention the prior games in marketing materials and hopefully P&F would not object to use of a specifically limited set of things like images of the box covers from SC 1&2. To address any concern about their IP P&F could have a clause saying Stardock can’t claim their games are a continuation of the story or include aliens, races, etc. (I am assuming “associate” here isn’t a desire to mention the prior story in the game, or do things like have models of the ships from the original games in Stardock’s marketing materials.)

To address the “P&F cease marketing under Star Control” part they’d of course agree to never use the star control name in any of their games. If Stardock really wants them never to utter the words “Star Control” in any way shape or form, give them “The Ur-Quan Masters” so they can say it’s a continuation of that story. If it’s felt “Ghosts of the Precursors” is now a problem because of things like the direct association this story has established in search engines between that exact name and SC:O they can settle on P&F not using that exact name and Stardock not objecting when they name it “The Precursor Legacy” or something. Or at worst they could argue about and settle on a specific name agreeable to all parties as part of settlement negotiation.

There was also a question of music rights in another discussion I saw. That seems pretty easily solvable. At most P&F could possibly demand that the literal music from SC1&2 not be used and IMHO the best scenario would be that the copyright to the music could go to the composer who works now for Stardock.

I assume and hope the true desires of each party are:

Stardock: Be totally free to make games in the “Star control” style/genre with new unrelated stories, using the name “Star Control” and reference to SC1&2 to signal to the audience the type of game it is, and that nobody else uses the name “Star Control”.

P&F: Be totally free to make games (or anything really) that are a direct continuation of the story of SC2, and make sure nobody else makes stories that are a continuation or reboot or any other copy of that story using the universe they crafted without their consent.

Forgive the long ramble. It’s so sad to see good faith so broken down. I can totally understand both side’s perspective, and from those perspectives their reasons for lacking faith in the other. Each sides fears that the other will use any wiggle room to try and screw them. I don’t think either one really would go out of their way to do so if the situation were resolved amicably. I am of course on record in this thread as thinking Brad’s demands are overboard and vindictive but I think that stems from overreaction, not that his concerns aren’t valid ones to have.

I don’t have a dog in this fight, I don’t care if the game gets made or not, and I have no tangible opinions on Brad, Fred, or Paul. That being said, if someone hired a scorched earth PR firm, and printed something like this about me, I would spend the rest of my life keeping them in court for no other reason than to bankrupt them. Given all I’ve read on this at this point, I’m amazed Brad has remained as civil as he has, it’s certainly way more civil than I would be.

When you post something like that in a public forum, all bets are off, and there is no response that’s too strong.

Maybe Paul and Fred already felt that way given the date at which that was tweeted.

Seems pretty tacky to me, but it’s not like this is a one sided PR war. Stardock and Brad have made a great deal of public claims to Paul and Fred’s motivations, claimed then aren’t the creators of SC 1&2, etc. Seems like if this is a scorched earth scenario it is so from both sides.

Can you link to that original retweet? I don’t see it on their feed and I looked at the tweet that it references and it doesn’t seem to be in the retweets. Are you sure it’s real given it’s just an image?

It was deleted.

Video about the lawsuit https://youtu.be/it50gS5yYB4

I am pretty lukewarm on his opinion based on his comments on the whole Star Citizen / Crytek stuff being pretty goofypants.

I think there are some interesting points made, most important the question as to whether or not the Accolade agreement was still valid is a very important one, as it does bring into question what exactly was able to be auctioned off, and what they actually own. It seems to me this really has never been clearly established (which is why there will be a legal case). It also bares the question: should Stardock be chasing the validity of auction (and who ever determined what was being sold) instead of P&F. I remember the Acclaim auction, and it had all sorts of similar crap.

I am also interested in the nominative use argument for the announcement of the P&F game because I thought that was a TM violation. That argument goes back to establishing who was the creator of the previous works and can make the use valid.

You would be more likely to get yourself SLAPP-d into bankruptcy well before you succeeded doing that to an opponent. Even if you always wound up in a state with mediocre SLAPP protections. I wouldn’t be surprised to learn you also got tagged as a Vexacious Litigant along the way (the upside of that being that it might cause you to get your own head out of your ass and stop hopelessly suing people for no reason, and you could save money that way). There’s nothing there that comes close to actual libel.

This is very terrible bad strategic advice.

Forest for the trees, Mr Savik. The particular sub thread of the conversation was whether people here at Quarter To Three want that. As there is no evidence whatsoever that Paul and Fred are secretly in posting in the thread it’s simply ludicrous to bring it up. But that wasn’t the only time Bleybourne tried invoking the dark and shadowy specter of their motives for no reason whatsoever because. . . well. . . there is some reason. I’m sure of it. Guess I forgot.

image

ADB had a limited license to use the Star Trek stuff, so I always felt it was fine.

That license didn’t allow them to make computer games from what I read, or use anything New Gen and beyond. Shame because I think Federation and Empire would have made a great PC game. (Kinda glad GalCiv 3 focuses on the building- building is what Stardock does well with their 4X’s to me)

At this point, I think massive PR damage has been dealt to everyone. Really think letting this whole thing go to the public was a mistake on everyone’s part.

Part two of the “Copyright lawyer dispassionately explains things” video. This one is mostly reading through the relevant portions of the P&F’s counterclaim.

tldw; Can I? Sorry, no. Can I? No. Can I? Look, we said no. Can I? NO! Well, I’m gonna anyway and I’ll sue you if you try and stop me.

I simply am unable to judge this case on the merits. It’s all way over my head. My only opinion is that it seems precipitate of Paul & Fred to have taken the matter to the public arena at a rather early stage of litigation. I’m not sure what was to be gained by that.

If you doubt the merits of your case, you take it to the public to with the PR battle there.

EDIT: To be clear, I have no idea what claims mean what and who has the stronger case and who is going to win in court. I have no legal background and I’m not about to weigh in on the merits of either side.

But if you feel like you have a rock-solid case and you’re going to win in court, why wouldn’t you just… win the case? Why start sending out PR to the various news outlets, etc? Especially in the manner that they have.

I don’t think it necessary follows that the opposite or reverse to that are true though.

Because Stardock was already fighting that battle in the court of public opinion by putting on this “We want to work with them!” face over and over again when Paul and Fred kept saying no? It happened right here on Qt3.

In what manner did they?
P&F have a blog with nine posts. Stardock has been blasting PR and outright lies constantly on as many channels as possible.

I can’t answer what is to be gained by it all. As far as their initial announcement that they are being sued that’s not something unheard of. Lawsuits are a matter of public record. They are often announced by one party or the other. The fact that someone is suing you and the details of the filing aren’t confidential. A lawsuit itself is basically a public accusation of the things in the suit.

One can certainly find fault with some of their other postings but making an announcement that there is a lawsuit against you doesn’t seem out of line. They had recently announced they were finally going to start making a long awaited follow up. Announcing that you are being sued to prevent or delay doing that is relevant news.