As far as I’m aware, the only people who have claimed that are people who have misunderstood the case.
The actual question is whether it is possible to make (and market) a sequel to the story from Star Control II that is not itself a Star Control game. While this sounds unintuitive, it is the logical implication of the trademark and copyright being separated.
Pretty much. Stardock can make a Star Control game that does not infringe on SC2 copyright (and I personally think SC:O infringes slightly on some specific stuff, but not outrageously and can be easily tweaked) and P&F can make a sequel to SC2 (not called Star Control so not an “Star Control” game).
Or at least that was the status quo before the lawsuit, and what a cursory reading of the case seems to indicate.
Basically, P&F can make The Ur-Quan Masters II, not Star Control: Whatever (as the trademark for the latter appears to be what Stardock purchased).
I don’t think anyone is confused about this issue (anymore), although Brad has claimed that owning the trademark gave him rights to what’s in the UQM, and everything has since spiralled out of control.
While I can’t speak for any consensus, my stance is the exact same as Brad Wardell’s pre-2017 stance. That Stardocks owns the name “Star Control” and can make games under that name, but P&F own the copyrights as laid out specifically in the original agreements with Accolade and repeatedly acknowledged online by Brad himself. Stardock can make games in a totally separate universe under the brand name “Star Control”, and P&F can make a follow up to their story as long as it’s not branded “Star Control”.
I believe Stardock does have a leg to stand on with the trademark issue, in that whether the original announcement constituted infringement or fair use is a debatable question for the court not a slam dunk either way. However the damages they are likely to recover if it if found to be infringing aren’t likely to be in the millions given how short a time the original announcement was up and how poorly SC:O seems to have sold (based on steam numbers like owners and the tiny concurrent player numbers).
I also believe P&F have a strong case, mainly due to Stardock’s changing stance and their literal announcements that they will use things form the classic games. But as I’ve said repeatedly no one can say how a jury will decide. It’s not an open and shut case by any means.
Those are my conclusions based on a preponderance of the evidence I’ve seen so far. Expectations are a different matter and I tend to be pessimistic.
I think this would qualify as the consensus opinion around here?
Along with: this whole wretched mess makes us sad.
Concur.
Okay, if we’re being honest, that “consensus” probably also includes, with all due respect:
Gosh, sometimes Brad Wardell acts like an ass.
If Stardock does have some secret ace up their sleeves and they utterly destroy P&F in this battle and thus they can never follow up the story of The Ur-Quan Masters, it’s going to be quite an odd things to gloat about. Sure, from a sociopathic need to score points and feel righteous it will be a kind of win, but to go down in gaming history as the guy who used a trademark bought at a bankruptcy auction to prevent the creators of a beloved game from following up on it isn’t the greatest legacy.
Some deep dark industry secret that a kid in his bedroom wrote SC, P&F bought it from him, and then turned around and made the deal with Accolade? No idea what it could be if people in the industry know what it is. That is about the only thing that would shock me at this point.
Maybe the thing Derek knows is that Brad is about to be a totally reasonable guy and isn’t going to be a flaming drama queen on twitter. That would absolutely subvert my expectations.
I loved the combat in SC1 as well, as someone who played a lot of Space War with friends in arcades. But you can play that exact same combat, with the same ships plus additional ones, in stand-alone modes in the other Star Control games too.
SC2 is one of the greatest games of all time - if you haven’t invested in it, you really should download Ur-Quan Masters, especially given our similar taste in games.
I like it!
Featuring appointment mechanics, timed puzzles and as a bonus feature all quests are escort missions.In a newbie friendly good will move , almost all the above can be made much easier by the loot boxes! Which have a 3.141% chance of containing something useful!
Day 1 baby! :)
Daily, then. Or more than once a day.
They are scoops. But mostly (by volume) not interesting scoops. A bit of OCD is going on here.
I mean, the same can be said about this thread and lawsuit. “Interesting” is subjective. People like Nightgaunt and Thrag are very interested in the developments in the suit, even the smaller ones. Other people, not as much.
And Derek would be the first to admit he’s OCD about it.
Also, if we want to keep the thread focused on Star Control, stop engaging Derek Smart of all people about his Star Citizen coverage. As you said, OCD.
EDIT: Er, sorry Yak, this came off sounding way more thread coppy than I meant it to! Yikes.
Are there examples in other media where this has happened? Maybe separating the trademark and copyright was not actually a possibility/legal and was instead an unfortunate legal gaffe on everyone’s part that P&F will just have to live with and put behind them?
Maybe Derek’s “secret” is that Stardock wins all the IP, source code, publishing rights, etc. for all the games in addition to the trademark? Maybe Brad is sick of all the SJWs in this thread backing P&F?
I think it works this way in books often:
So I assume Katherine Applegate can’t write an Animorphs book and publish it with another publisher without permission from Scholastic. Can Scholastic use the characters, setting, storyline of previous Animorphs books without Applegate’s permission? I don’t know.
A lot of these questions cannot be keenly answered by copyright, because you are asking for a “bright line” in an area where it is impossible.
I recall similar discussions from law school. Can I make a movie about a poor, white boxer named Rocky who overcomes a wealthy, black championship holder named Apollo, and for training, Rocky pounds sides of beef? Can i make a movie about a poor, white boxer named Rocko who pounds sides of beef as training? A poor, white boxer named Doug who pounds sides of pork? A wealthy, suburban boxer named Rocky? What about a just a boxer?
You can do this angels on the head of a pin thing all day. The courts are compelled, by necessity of the area of law, to make judgments based on the facts. This type of thing is incapable of providing a clean law that will provide certainty in every situation as to whether something is a copy or derivative work.
(Don’t get me started on fair use.)
I imagine that it’s similar to what Potter Stewart said about pornography: “I’ll know it when I see it.”
Clearly that’s right. I was wondering if the fact that video games are a medium with unique elements like game mechanics and control schemes would complicate it, and if fiction might provide some clearer examples, but seems like it’s just always murky.
So here’s a question (for the guys who went to law school, including @peterb): What would you guess would be a bigger factor in the case if it went to trial? Paul & Fred’s list of components of the Hyperspace experience in both games? Or Brad’s admittance before suits were filed that P&F owned the storyline and characters from SC2?