A lot of my distaste has to do with their handling of the matter and the salacious claims being made and how they contradict earlier statements. So while a judgement in their favor would lessen my current distaste it doesn’t wash away how they have handled things.
Edit: Let me follow up on that. Take for example the attempt to claim P&F held no copyrights because they may not have had proper employment agreements. Sure, that’s a legal argument that can be made and I wouldn’t begrudge it.
However when claims start to be made that this was part of a scheme to deceive and commit fraud, yeah, that’s over the top. They are making public accusations as part of a legal document that P&F knowingly and intentionally committed a fraud on Accolade and all the people who did work for them on the original games.
For contrast I recently watched the GDC interview with P&F again and they constantly drop names to give people credit for their contributions. Even people not on the team like where Paul mentions Dan Silva the creator of Deluxe Paint.
Well, I guarantee you I’m one guy who isn’t buying another Stardock game for as long as I live. I don’t care if they buy Nintendo. I’m done with them. No way should they be rewarded with my money…
I know it’s not the point of your post, but that’s not even an argument that meaningfully helps Stardock if it was true, and to be true (a) that IP would have to have not automatically been assigned as a matter of law, AND (b) that IP would have to have not been assigned by contract; AND (c) that IP would have to have been material enough to even matter to significantly affect P&F’s copyright - i.e. even if a few contractors have partial ownership rights of a few jointly developed pieces of code or dialogue, that wouldn’t meaningfully alter P&F’s overall copyright rights to the contents of Star Control 1 and 2. And none of those rights would go to Stardock or otherwise increase Stardock’s rights anyway - they’d be rights of the other creators, not of Stardock’s.
As to potential bad feelings people may have about Stardock after this, people buying their games is only one aspect. I wonder if Stardock considered what taking and continuing this action may do to their reputation among game developers.
If you were an indie developer looking for a publisher, how would knowledge that they sued Paul and Fred personally in this way sit? Especially moves like the obvious IP grabs with all the new trademarks. Forget any feelings of sympathy that devs may have with P&F in the matter, from a purely business perspective is this a company you would want to be signing contracts with?
Add me to that list. Regardless of the legalities, Stardock didn’t comport themselves well.
Excellent point. The new games for Ironclad and Mohawk aren’t published by Stardock anymore, right? Have there been other developers who’ve had more than one game published by Stardock before moving to another publisher or have gone independent? Gas Powered did Demigod and then parted ways, too, I think. Looks like a pattern at first blush?
Mohawk has a new publisher. I have no idea what Ironclad is doing. Is Ironclad even working on anything? They had 1 game they were working on after Sins of a Solar Empire, but I haven’t heard anything about them working on anything else. I’d been hoping before that they would take the nitrous engine and do a Sins sequel.
Ironclad was making Sins of a Dark Age (MOBA) but that was canceled. They got really sucked down by the assholes at Rebellion (UK dev/pub) suing them over Sins: Rebellion over trademark infringement. Ironclad won, IIRC, but it was super expensive and draining.
I think I speak for us all when I say that Sins 2 would make me very, very happy.
In April of 2012 we received a cease and desist order from representatives of Rebellion Developments. They asserted that our use of the word “Rebellion” in the title of our game “Sins of a Solar Empire: Rebellion” was violating their trademark. Rebellion Developments made a number of demands including destroying all our existing promotional and marketing materials, paying them money and agreeing to never talk about it.
They ended up winning in the US, but were being sued in Canada (they’re Canadian) and possibly UK. No further updates; this is literally the last news post on their site :(
Yea it sucks. But they/we won the case (Stardock/Ironclad use the same legal firm).
Re Mohawk, as Mohawk’s co-founder I was very involved in helping them find a publisher for game 2. Timing is a very important element in deciding which games to publish.
Mohawk, incidentally, helped develop Star Control: Origins while we were seeking a publisher for game 2.
As I wrote a while ago, this has caused damage on my consideration… it’s a bit a “third strike, you’re out” for me. I’ll be less likely to engage with Stardock in the future.
This isn’t the thread for this but for accuracy: the last post on our site marks the launch of our last Sins DLC “Outlaw Sector” which came 2 years after the trademark post. I didn’t bother posting anything, but we also won in Canada. Finally, I’m not sure about radio silence unless you mean product announcements. I’m active almost everyday on the Sins steam forums and I’ve been putting out plenty of code updates (including one last week). As for new products, I’m working on multiple projects, there just isn’t anything public. Silence on the new products has nothing to do with the trademark lawsuits, Stardock, or any external factor - its purely an internal matter. Sorry for the sidetrack.
Hey man, I’m super glad to be wrong. I was just going off the Ironclad Games site.
Super excited to see whatever’s next, unless it’s something boring like B2B internet auto marketing services. In which case I’d be happy for you getting paid, but not really interested in consuming your product ;)
If Stardock wants to use the space ships from Star Control I/II it has to have permission of the copyright holders which would not include Accolade/Stardock.
If the 1988 agreement was active, then Stardock would have the right to do that under a royalty percent that would be too high to use hence a request to create a specific license.
If the 1988 agreement has expired, then Stardock can’t use the spaceships without a new license.
There is no “screw you” here because Stardock can’t use the space ships or, for instance, the Orz, as depicted in Star Control II.
Contrary to some of the imagined correspondence I’ve seen here, I think there were like 4 such requests over a period of 5 years trying to find a way to license the space ships and/or Orz.
But what this means, as a practical matter, is that the Orz, for example, cannot be in the new Star Control games (IANAL) because, IMO, they are too well defined. Not in terms of art even, but even if you changed the Orz to look totally different, a species called Orz that started saying “We are frumple” would be too risky to try to put into a commercial game (again IMO).
So even with a registered trademark on the Orz, as a game designer, I don’t see a way to use them in game because of the issues I listed above.
The bottom line, if Stardock has a species called the Orz, it would have to be so different that it would be, IMO, worthless in game without a copyright license.
But that doesn’t mean that Paul and Fred can use them either. The Orz are strongly associated with Star Control. There’s an endless series of exhibits that show this. Every time Star Control comes up and someone says we are happy campers a lawyer smiles. The only way they can use the Orz in commerce is with Stardock’s permission.
Now, if you look back through the various emails, you will find that the Orz was an alien that we wanted to get a specific license to use. Paul and Fred’s refusal meant no Orz now and presumably, no Orz ever after. But at the same time, we don’t have to let them use the Orz either.
As long as Paul and Fred are trying to cancel the Star Control trademark, you can be assured that Stardock will respond aggressively by locking down any and all trademarkable items associated with Star Control. I realize some of you have an issue with this but that is the nature of the beast.
Personally, I’d rather have an amicable settlement where everyone is happy or at least, equally unhappy.
[Y]ou can be assured that Stardock will respond aggressively by locking down any and all trademarkable items associated with Star Control.
I’d like to know when Stardock plans on demanding that The Ur-Quan Masters stop being distributed. Or are you just going to not defend the purported trademark vigorously in that case?
As long are you are literally personally suing them using that trademark obviously they will continue to argue the trademark is invalid. You brought it on yourself. Stop trying to make it seem like they made you do all this. Take some responsibility for your actions. Don’t try to play the victim because they are doing the first and most obvious thing in defense to the lawsuit you initiated.
Why do you think all this excuse making and victim playing does anything but reinforce the negative feelings your actions have created? If the excuses didn’t go over well the first time, why would they go over well the 20th time?
