The thread for police reforms

In a word, intersectionality. It’s race, and class, and gender, and politics. If the demographics of this county are as @arrendek says, there probably aren’t a lot of people of color, and so the crime formulas point to the people who are there, the poorer whites. Just a guess, but that’s how it often seems to work.Racism is but one of the tools those in power use to keep themselves in power. Often, it’s not race that is even most important, it’s those other factors, though admittedly they often overlap.

Kind of curious so I popped it in to the census data site:

Other data there is to compare with Tampa’s county. Apparently in 2000 that Black/AA number for Pasco was ~2% (according to Wikipedia).

I heard an idea floated a while back. We just install traffic cameras everywhere, and don’t let cops pull people over for traffic violations- just straight up remove them from the equation. Tickets come in the mail, with video links, etc., keyed to the license plate of the vehicle, and are considered parking (not moving) violations.

Ignoring the bias software can have programmed in (not to mention facial recognition is notoriously bad at recognizing POC faces), and assuming it’s open-source so can be audited for such, it’s scary to think that perhaps our most promising saviour from the police and their racist fuckery might just be… Big Brother.

Beyond traffic stuff though, I’m not sure how automation really helps. Unless ED-209 is sent out to serve warrants I guess.

Yeah, the traffic cameras might serve to make a moral point: Lots of the people who figure that some black (and/or poor) person deserved what they got, because they were, after all, breaking a law. So do they apply the same principle to themselves, if they get speeding tickets every time they go over the limit?

Of course, it would turn out that for many right wingers, the law is just a tool to keep other people in place, and they see police as their agents in this endeavor.

However, using traffic cameras to replace traffic stops would be a drop in the bucket when it came to eliminating opportunities for abusive policing.

Like everything else, traffic cams are a mixed bag I think. At one level, it automates enforcement of seemingly unambiguous statutes. The speed limit is a number, your velocity is a number, and if the latter exceeds the former by whatever slop factor you decide to build in, voila, snap the pic and send the tick(et). Of course, it’s never like that with human enforcement, which is one big reason many people hate traffic cameras. With a cop, there is the possibility of talking your way out of a ticket, and there is the possibility that the officer watching that stretch of road might not pull you over anyhow, even if you are speeding, depending on a host of factors. Cameras, like honey badgers, don’t care.

Of course, the probability of a traffic stop or a ticket from a human officer can be affected by all sorts of things that should not be involved, including race, class, gender, even the oft-cited but possibly mythical quota system. In essence, traffic cameras trade the judgment, good or bad, or an officer for the programming, good or bad, of an algorithm and the associated detection hardware. On balance, I am not at all sure there is much gain for citizens, though no doubt quite a bit of gain for the budgets of municipalities that collect the fines.

The upside of traffic cameras is that taking one out is a far smaller offense.

Well, um, yeah, I suppose that is so!

Police becoming millionaires in less than 5 years. This is why they don’t want change.

How is it police departments hire so many criminals?

Takes one to know one?

If you think police may be strangely indifferent and cruel to some of the citizens they are expected to serve and protect, you may also want to study our nations quality prison staff.

Being in prison sucks. Being in prison with chronic disease, requiring carefully measured medication, and having addiction or mental health concerns, shouldn’t be a death sentence because of apathy or incompetence.

Not just police, but investigators and prosecutors also.

Here is a (recently-fired) prosecutor in Wisconsin complains that the one example of “unprofessional” behavior cited in his firing, was a tweet in which he gives advice on WHAT WORDS TO USE TO SECURE YOUR RIGHT TO REMAIN SILENT. He thought part of his job was to contribute to justice and help the public work within the law, but it turns out the DA only wanted people to be on his team and fight to win. Trying to help citizens avoid entrapment, is professionally incompatible with being a prosecutor in this town. He is now thinking of becoming a public defender.

(For reference, courts have ruled that REMAINING SILENT IS INSUFFICIENT to assert your right to remain silent. You MUST EXPLICITLY SPEAK and say you are asserting your right to not speak, and explicitly ask for an attorney. This applies whether or not you are in custody or have been Mirandized.)

Saw that on the news last night. It turned my stomach. Such scum.

The WTF thread was also an option for this one.

All I have to say is WTF. Why aren’t the police being hauled in front of a grand jury for this abomination of policing?




We managed to get a gun from the 1800’s in a obsolete caliber and questionable working condition off the street.

I think “60 Officers” means “officers of the 60th precinct”.

Normally I’d say it’s possible that it was intended as a “LOL check this out” post rather than an “attaboy” post, but with the police these days, they get no benefits of doubts.