The thread of Liberal Stupidity


#1022

Ok, you two have a point. Now I’m kinda curious how the book ends.


#1023




#1024

Yeah that’s been flying around Social Media for a few days. That’s not black face, the claws, the teeth, the I’m gonna eat you expression in general is not remotely close to what black face really is.


#1025

Yeah, painting your face black isn’t the same as blackface.


#1026

#1027

That is so stupid that she has to be working for Putin, or the GOP. Don’t educate anyone because then they’ll have privilege!


#1028

There is a guy in a town near here that set up their front yard for Halloween. As part of the look he hung what appeared to be human filled body bags (upside down) from a tree in his house. No nooses, nothing around any necks and no actual body parts visible.

Of course after social media went crazy he was forced to remove them for being racist.


#1029

A good friend of mine is pretty active in social justice circles. Somewhere in the bi/pansexual spectrum herself, dating a nonbinary genderqueer social worker, etc. We normally get on pretty great, and she’s come to really value the RPG one-shots I run as a safe, happy space where she can enjoy 4 hours of hilarious good times without themes or activities that would be hard for her to work with.

She was asking for book recco’s on Facebook recently, and I saw one person put up a good 300-400 word review of a series that included exactly zero information about plot, setting, style, or quality, but instead was entirely devoted to remarking on the diversity of the cast by ticking off list-boxes and then listing a series of possible triggers in the content.

Like, look. I think having a greater diversity of characters and situations in books probably benefits us all. Not a ton of gay black lady heroes in fantasy fiction 20 years ago, and for folks in need of role models and heroes to aspire to be like, that could absolutely suck. And hey, since I’m reasonably confident my pal there is a rape and abuse survivor herself, noting the book includes some potentially problematic stuff along those lines as part of a larger (and eventually, rather egalitarian-sounding) storyline is probably wise.

But when that stuff stops being an aspect of what makes a book good/laudable/recommendable and instead becomes the sole reason for its perceived quality, I kinda wonder if folks have missed the point. Who cares if the book’s good or interesting or what it’s even about; it just features this many alternate lifestyles and handles this justice-topic-de-jour in the properly annointed way, and therefore it’s worth buying.

I mean I guess better giving that author $10 than Orson Scott Card, but something about the single-minded, tunnel-visioned specificity of that post really kinda rubbed me the wrong way, esp. when so many other people on the thread managed to rec interesting, cool-sounding books that they explained why they loved while also noting their progressive bonafides as icing on the literary cake.


#1030

I had to look this up, as I thought I’d be weirder than it is, but I guess it just means fucks whatever.


#1031

I was actually just initially gonna say bisexual but then I remembered her partner doesn’t really identify as, well, anything and went with the broader option.


#1032

The day Armando became the Enemy.

But seriously, there is a large aspect of that to some of these things.
I follow a fair amount of very liberal comic makers who bitch about that sort of thing and then go off about some great comic their reading and all I know about said comic is that the main characters are queer or something. Like… nothing else. I mean if they are, great, but maybe sell me on why I should buy this book for the story or something as well.


#1033

See, maybe it’s just my bias, but I feel like someone who doesn’t identify as a gender at all is just trying to be edgy. That it’s just a bunch of bullshit at that level.


#1034

My understanding of that individual’s position is that sexism/toxic masculinity/the patriarchy/whatever has so thoroughly tainted the social trappings of both genders in Western society that to ID as either of them is to passively accept all the bullshit that’s crufted onto their social constructs in the last, I dunno, 2000 years or whatever. They don’t really see themselves as being very much like either gender’s stereotypical depiction and don’t want to “play the game,” so to speak.

I suspect there’s more to it than that, including more personal/identity/emotional elements, but my conversations with the partner are usually restricted to aggressive progressive politics and RPGs when we rarely get to hang out, so I don’t know a lot about their inner emotional life :)


#1035

I understand where you’re coming from and you’re right, it can be taken too far. On the other hand, if a piece can’t pass the Bechdel test I don’t know what it really says you can’t continue with your work but maybe it’s time to ask why it doesn’t.

The end result should never feel forced, but more diversity in mainstream entertainment offerings is rarely a bad thing, but it should make some sense.


#1036

Maybe, but I tend to agree. I know a lesbian that I’m fairly good friends with that seems to float around in that space.
I mean… she’s a lesbian. And has been for as long as I’ve known her, which is going on near 20 years at this point, but recently she’s been using random word salads to identify on social media. It’s like every possible variation on what you like needs a byword now.

You can’t be a butch lesbian that likes the same. There is a term for that or something. I mean do whatever makes you happy, but there is something to be said for inclusive language that the layman can relate to, especially when you’re trying to get those people on your side.

I’m willing to go with he, she and they for pronouns without issue (hell I’ve argued for ‘they’ before it got co-opted), but if you start making up shit like Xie, Ey, and Ze, I’m out. I’ll still be there defending your rights to do whatever, but that sort of thing is just horseshit bordering on insanity.

Literally a sentence according to some people:

Example: Ze reminded zirself to pick up zir umbrella before going outside.

No. Just no. I’m sorry if that makes someone feel bad, I really am, but no.


#1037

The best sentence ever used about the subject.


#1038

Yep, I don’t think we disagree at all on this. My issue was entirely with the completely uninformative review, not the books’ author’s laudable commitment to diversity :-)


#1039

This is a case of someone with a particular right-wing axe to grind ripping something from its context and presenting it to a totally different audience to make it appear ridiculous.

What you’re really supposed to take away from the book in question is: “Excellence in mathematics is often identified with Whiteness in the minds of students. Math educators might want to take this into account when teaching a diverse body of students.” Presented that way, it’s not so controversial, is it?


#1040

Yay for agreement!

Also, don’t we already have a few pretty cool superheroes that are gay, lesbians and bisexual… etc. I remember thinking Shatterstar was really cool, have no idea what universe that was in, and when he was revealed to be bisexual, I didn’t care. He was cool to me already. But it’s not like the first sentence of what I read was this is Shatterstar and he is bisexual. By the time that was revealed, I was already really liking the character and wanting to know more. I think some just jump that first step, but that is also a rookie/amateur mistake.


#1041

Shatterstar is Marvel, X-Factor mostly.




I loved X-Factor when they stopped fighting crazy super villains and just were like a detective agency or whatever. People with super powers mostly doing regular shit. But they’d always have to ruin it with some crazy super hero stuff where they get sent to an alternate dimension or something.