How would this be any different from straight-up top five games? That’s the question I routinely discuss with people, although I find it’s much more practical to limit it to three. These kinds of discussions are more interesting when you force people to leave things off the list!
-Tom
https://thumbs.gfycat.com/HopefulIncredibleCavy-max-1mb.gif
I didn’t know there was a revised core set! Did I buy the right thing?? How can I tell?!?
EDIT: This is a reply to a deleted post. Apologies if it makes no sense on its own.
First of all, you make good points in your reply about how informed we might be and how critical we want to be of the games we play.
And those 3 trends you mention (as well as building on and meshing previously unique game mechanisms) are interesting topics to follow as boardgaming keeps growing. But it’s indeed unclear that games released in a specific year necessarily have a very unique “flavour”.
They just tend to build continuously upon the predecessors their designers admired.
For me, the “of the past 5 years” was an interesting little constraint. But it means it’s missing some of my real favourite games. Vindication is still up there though.
This is on me, but I’m not sure what you mean. Boardgames and videogames are different media and often consumed differently. But I guess solo videogames are also solitaire puzzles?
That said, whether the comment was meant in jest or not, it’s becoming kind of true for me. Over the past 5 years, my interest in single player videogames has waned (Shock! Horror!). These days, most of my free time is spent playing boardgames with my family, friends or at my boardgaming club. And the rest playing in 2 TTRPG campaigns (once face to face, one online).
The rest of the time is reading (reviews, books, RPG rules, boardgame rules, …) and prepping a story I want to run. That’s my solo time.
As I said, my comment was not meant as a criticism of solo games; just a me thing. Playing with others is just what scratches the itch for me. Which is why I spend more time in boardgaming threads than videogames ones. Guess I might need to lose my gamer card. :/
Gah, I deleted it before I saw you’d replied. I was probably being too negative and decided there was no point me coming in here to be all negative. I appreciate that @Nightgaunt and @arrendek started and managed this thread, so I wanted to make sure to answer Arrendek’s question about why I didn’t vote. But I shouldn’t have taken that as an opportunity to hold forth.
I was just giving you guff for a refrain I hear all too often. I’ve always been nonplussed that people who play single-player videogames can be so dismissive of solitaire boardgaming. So that’s just my stock rejoinder when someone says they’d rather play boardgames with friends than alone. I mean, yes, duh! Who doesn’t love boardgaming with friends? I’d wager that’s how most of us discovered and cultivated the hobby for ourselves.
But part of the value of solitaire boardgame is that it removes one of the major obstacles to boardgaming: the need for multiple adults to be available for several hours at the same time.
-Tom
I thought I had gone crazy! I was scouring the thread to try and find it.
And awww. Since you mentioned those trends in recent years, I thought you might enjoy the work of a review channel that produces longer form reviews which also tackle those topics the boardgaming industry is grappling with.
(This one is ostensibly a review of Sleeping Gods, but also a general look at narrative games and their evolution)
Very true. But, for me, it’s to the point that I feel no enthusiasm for sitting alone in front of my table or my console. I guess I’m that far gone. :)
Never mind. I did my own research.
Phooey. I bought the wrong box.
I haven’t opened it yet so I can return it without any trouble.
I called that game shop again and now they’re holding the Arkham Horror Revised Core Set plus Sleeping Gods for me to pick up on Monday. Arkham costs $12 more than Amazon but fuck Amazon. I’m buying it from a game shop!
Thanks for the heads up, trig! I’m glad I mentioned it when I did. :)
I’ve learned that I’m actually bad at solo gaming. Like, not that I lose a lot (although that might also be the case), but I’m really bad about screwing up the rules or missing steps or little details, mostly because I’m tempted to move too fast. Maybe it just takes more practice, or maybe I’m playing in the wrong environment, I don’t know.
But regardless, I’m also in the Wendelius camp and find board games appealing primarily for their social value. Tabletop games provide an excuse to gather and a central focus for all the other conversation and camaraderie to orbit around, the way a meal might at a different kind of gathering.
Is that weird when I play most of my video games single player? Yeah, maybe. I feel like there is a kind of difference in the ephemerality of board games (typically). A session is an hour or three, it comes to a conclusion and then it’s done. The next one is played basically in isolation. I also don’t like video games that are this way. Like, an RTS game that’s focused on individual head-to-head match-ups without a campaign… I don’t begrudge anyone playing that single player, but it feels masturbatory to me!
As far as the value of our vote here, there should be no illusions that it’s scientific or super-exhaustive or representative of anything much. The Quarterlies are just as skewed by the tastes and the limitations of those who participate, it seems to me. I just like it for how it makes me think about some of the games I’ve played and how I learn about games I didn’t know about or didn’t know enough about!
If anyone wants to take exception to Gloomhaven based on its release date, I honestly think we made the right call here. Practically no one had the game in their hands before its second Kickstarter delivered. In the voting thread for the previous 5 years NO ONE even MENTIONED Gloomhaven. So cast your skepticism on the Arkham Horror LCG if you are feeling ornery (it did get votes last time), though I am happy with that call too.
Solo board gaming can be more difficult for some of us simply due to space considerations. Now that we are in a small condo the non boardgaming members of the household do not like the Bridge table open in the middle of the living room. A bridge table wouldn’t be big enough for some games anyway.
I did a fair bit of solo board gaming for a while and bought a good number of games solely based on how good they were supposed to be for solo gaming.
The only reason I’ve more or less stopped playing solo, is the effort required to set up and put away most games I enjoy playing. So much easier to start a computer game.
I have this problem too. I enjoy single player board gaming, and have developed a new appreciation for it in the last couple of years (apropos of nothing whatsoever) but I do have to fight this tendency in myself, to get too far out in front of myself. I think one habit I need to cultivate in myself is reading through the rule book in full before playing - but I often find that playing while reading is helpful for context. Plus rulebooks are often so damned dry, y’know? But I feel like it would help, maybe?
Gloomhaven was fulfilling in early 2017 (Februaryish) for its first printing. Not sure how that would make it anything other than a 2017 game.
For me solo boardgaming takes a back seat because I can get into a videogame or a movie or a show in <1 minute and if need be, suspend them just as quickly. And a solo boardgame requires at least several minutes of setup and a free table until I’m done. But also, it’s just far easier to get people together to play a boardgame than a videogame, for me. The boardgame just requires me to own it, and gets people away from interruptions by spouses, roomies, etc. So one of those things is more conducive to the group play that’s potentially most rewarding to me, and the other to solo play. They’re both still fun either way when I can swing them.
I think my little card table might choke on Sleeping Gods!
This is me as well, but I don’t mind. Learning the rules better by making boneheaded errors is all just part of the fun!
With Final Girl, I find myself catching errors and then undoing moves fairly often to correct my mistake. If it’s too late to fix things, I just chalk up the game to a learning experience. But what about all the errors we make and don’t even know we made?! It haunts the soul.
This afternoon I put away Poltergeist and Creech Manor and pulled out Geppetto and the Carnival of Blood. My crazy plan was to play the game, but then that plan got derailed due to severe Minion/Puppet/Killer confusion in the rulebook and special rules and BGG forums so I decided I’d better watch a play-through on youtube before trying it myself.
I guess this is the hobby, yeah? :D
Glad you got the revised box – it’s just nicer in that you’ll be able to play with any two investigators in the core box you want, right from the go.
BTW, I mentioned it a long time ago in the dedicated Arkham Horror LCG thread but this is a tremendous watch-along let’s play of the very first tutorial scenario. The dude who is teaching the rules knows them very well, but he’s patient and generous with spelling everything out for the two players who are learning. And it’s a plus that they all seem to be having fun, too.
Thanks! I saw you posted that video and I was planning to check it out.
One last question… SLEEVES! What type and how many and where from for Arkham Horror?! Do you just buy thousands at a time?
I’ve realized that I do something a lot of people wouldn’t dream of doing when they play a boardgame: practice.
There’s a sort of mental muscle memory that comes with playing a game. It requires not just knowing the rules, but also the rhythm, and the pitfalls, and the interface issues. For me, part of learning a game is playing specifically to figure out what things I’m going to get wrong. And then when I get something wrong, I start over. It’s an iterative process and eventually it results in playing a game smoothly and comfortably.
I am constantly astonished at people who record boardgame videos when they’re obviously not yet comfortable with how the game plays. Would those people perform a song without knowing the music? Would they deliver a speech without practicing in the mirror? Would they run a marathon or compete in a tournament without training? Would they attempt a dance without learning the steps first?
So why are they playing a boardgame in front of an audience when they clearly don’t know the game? Why haven’t they done rehearsal run-throughs? Or more to the point, why do they think we want to watch a rehearsal run-through instead of a competent performance?
Anyway, my point is that playing wrong is part of learning a boardgame, but it shouldn’t be confused with actually playing the game. Instead, it’s part of the process that results in playing the game, much like reading the rules or examining the components.
Actually, no, it’s not the hobby! At least, it doesn’t have to be. There are many, many, many games out there that have been rigorously playtested, and also many games with well-written rules. Final Girl is neither of those things. It’s certainly got its appeal, but I for one am glad it’s not representative of the hobby. If anything, it’s representative of the effect of Kickstarter campaigns and inexperienced developers. :)
-Tom
Most folks don’t sleeve. Around here it’s kind of a dirty word. :)
But if you’re gonna (and I do, because I cannot stand clicky cards with a warp in the middle of them) then you might as well do it right.
Since I have about 1,200 of these lying around waiting for me to complete my Arkham Horror LCG collection, I’ll share my favorite sleeve.
They’re really high quality, with a textured see-through matte surface on the back, and a soft matte front. They are, as they say, a great shuffle. :) And the price for sleeves of this quality is hard to beat.
Thanks for the suggestion! Maybe I’ll give it a try… those sleeves actually cost about the same amount as the outdated Arkham Horror set I’m returning to Amazon.
…which is increasingly the hobby, no? ;)
Sounds a bit like that other hobby that grew into early access fundraising and playtesting and youtube videos and such. If it means more opportunities for game designers and more variety in the games we play, those are net positives, right?
I was stuck buying the two most complicated Final Girl sets due to everything else being sold out. If I figured out that Poltergeist, I can figure out this Geppetto guy too.
On your earlier point, I think watching someone engaged in the process of playing a boardgame skillfully is appealing, but so is watching someone engaged in the process of learning a boardgame. If I like the host, I’m down with either form of entertainment. (I should mention here that I watched you play Dark Souls 3 for a loooong time! And had a blast doing so.)
But either way, they should be honest upfront about their skill level. (That Arkham video triggercut shared seems ideal because it includes an expert along with a couple of newcomers.)
I am not very much into rules discussion, mostly because often I can’t make my brain wrap around some of the concepts that I see Tom and Bruce and other really smart people talk about. I love reading about those concepts when they talk about them, but I’m often easily pleased enough by theme, components, and how I engage with the game (and thus can be distracted from caring too much about conflicting or too-vague rules)
(So, for instance, I couldn’t really articulate exactly why a game like Gloomhaven 1.0 made me feel really unsatisfied and even, dare I say, anxious when I play it, but then reading discussion about how the game is essentially a race to do not enough stuff while you run out of cards absolutely nailed how I was feeling about it.)
With that said…I have seen games with really tight rules and manuals that really badly explain those rules (Robinson Crusoe 1.0, holy shit). I’ve also seen games that manage to be super detailed about so much of the rules…and then fumble the ball on a key segment (Apocrypha campaign game rules, for instance). But, as that Clouseau fellow once damply told Maria Gambrelli, “It’s all part of life’s rich pageant” for a gamer. :)
And I will admit to frankly being attracted to absurd excess in gaming at times. Because I know that I’m attracted to that in music, which is another thing I’m a fan of. So for instance, even though I know there’s so much that drives gamers crazy in Tainted Grail, I’m still enamored by the hilarious excess of it all. Or Too Many Bones. God I love that game. And my analytical brain whent it’s being honest with the rest of my id knows that a big reason is that the amount of Too Many Bones stuff might be at least partially a contributing factor. (And that’s why I steer my wallet clear of Cthulhu Wars and Kingdom Death: Monster.)
And I think you need those crazy kickstarters and such to get some of that nonsense that I love so much about this hobby.
I sleeved all of mine in penny sleeves because I’m cheap. It did help resale value when I sold the set.
I use normal Ultra Pro White (player cards), Black (encounter cards), Clear (locations and investigators) and Penny Sleeves for (acts and agenda cards). The color helps greatly to sort and cleanup after a game.
As for how many cards: Arkham card counts(TEST) - Google Sheets
