The Vaccines vs Torch Wielding Mobs debate continues

Politics and religion
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Exactly. That’s what infuriates me about the “autism statistics” they bandy about in ads and other media about how we now have an “autism” crisis. People hear the word and think it refers to the classic version of the disorder and don’t realize how little it takes now to be called “autistic”. Plenty of productive adults would have been classified as “autistic” as children by current standards, myself included.

There’s a local former MLB player who does a lot of work on the autism issue, partly because his daughter was diagnosed with it. His daughter who is capable enough to do radio ads with her father and who is on the honor roll at school. That tells you all you need to know IMHO.

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I caught a few minutes with this guy on the radio (Adam Carolla to be exact) who wrote an opinion piece about the myth of raging peanut allergies.

… unless you’re a character on “Heroes,” genes don’t mutate fast enough to have caused an 18% increase in childhood food allergies between 1997 and 2007. And genes certainly don’t cause 25% of parents to believe that their kids have food allergies, when 4% do. Yuppiedom does…

…
But we did agree that it is strange how peanut allergies are only an issue in rich, lefty communities.

“We don’t see this problem much in African American or poor communities. So there’s something going on here. We don’t see them in Ecuador and Guatemala,” Christakis said.

A study of Jews of similar demographics and genetics in Britain and Israel found that British kids were 10 times more likely to have peanut allergies than Israelis.

I throw Vaccine hysteria right up there with Fibromyalgia*, Environmental Sensitivity and ailments that can only be treated with the quackery of Chiropracty as inventions of middle aged affluent women with too much time on their hands (and maybe too much money.)

*which could be a symptom of depression, a real disease, not a disease in and of itself.

To get back to Vaccines - here isa very nice article on the subject.

Kirby insists that the scientific mainstream disagrees with him, not because maybe they understand the research better, but because they are afraid of the truth. They want to avoid any research that could ultimately point back to vaccines. But this is just conspiracy-mongering self-righteous nonsense. And it is a huge non-sequitur.
The notion that scientists disagree with someone because scientists are generally unimaginative and afraid of the truth is huge red flag. This is the mantra of the crank.

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Why not? The vaccination your kids received is to shield them in case of exactly such a situation.

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[center]The Dread Tomato Addiction

by Mark Clifton[/center]

Ninety-two point four percent of juvenile delinquents have eaten tomatoes.

Eighty-seven point one percent of the adult criminals in penitentiaries throughout the United States have eaten tomatoes.

Informers reliably inform that of all known American communists, ninety-two point three percent have eaten tomatoes.

Eighty-four percent of all people killed in automobile accidents during the year 2000 had eaten tomatoes.

Those who object to singling out specific groups for statistical proofs require measurements within a total. Of those people born before the year 1850, regardless of race, color, creed or caste, and known to have eaten tomatoes, there has been one hundred percent mortality!

In spite of their dread addiction, a few tomato eaters born between 1850 and 1900 still manage to survive, but the clinical picture is poor – their bones are brittle, their movements feeble, their skin seamed and wrinkled, their eyesight failing, hair falling, and frequently they have lost all their teeth.

Those born between 1900 and 1950 number somewhat more survivors, but the overt signs of the addiction’s dread effects differ not in kind but only in degree of deterioration. Prognostication is not hopeful.

Exhaustive experiment shows that when tomatoes are withheld from an addict, invariably his cravings will cause him to turn to substitutes – such as oranges, or steak and potatoes. If both tomatoes and all substitutes are persistently withheld – death invariably results within a short time!

The skeptic of apocryphal statistics, or the stubborn nonconformist who will not accept the clearly proved conclusions of others, may conduct his own experiment. Obtain two dozen tomatoes – they may actually be purchased within a block of some high schools, or discovered growing in a respected neighbor’s back yard! – crush them to a pulp in exactly the state they would have if introduced into the stomach, pour the vile juice and pulp into a bowl, and place a goldfish therein. Within minutes the goldfish will be dead!

Those who argue that what affects a goldfish might not apply to a human being may, at their own choice, wish to conduct a direct experiment by fully immersing a live human head* into the mixture for a full five minutes.

[i]* It is suggested that best results will be obtained by using an experimental subject who is thoroughly familiar with and frequently uses the logic methods demonstrated herein, such as:

(a) The average politician. Extremely unavailable to the average citizen except during the short open season before election.

(b) The advertising copyrighter. Extremely wary and hard to catch due to his experience with many lawsuits for fraudulent claims.

© The dedicated moralist. Extremely plentiful in supply, and the experimenter might even obtain a bounty on each from a grateful community.[/i]

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I’m still surprised that in many circles this isn’t more of a controversy in respect to certain vaccines.

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I wish there was a vaccine against torch-wielding mobs.

No, all you need to do is compare one statistic to itself, not delve into the definitions and related statistics. Also, helmets caused an increase in head injuries during WWI.

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Ars just covered a recently published paper that came to the conclusion that the rise in autism diagnosis deriving from an increased awareness and more encompassing criteria could not explain the dramatic increase in total cases.

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Fuck it, I’m changing sides then. Vaccines are the only thing left to blame!

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The link doesn’t actually say anything I can see about awareness (parents, teachers, social workers, school psychologists, etc). Just changes to the DSM.

Of course, you can’t really say much from a summary of a research paper. I do think it’s safe to say one study doesn’t “rule out” anything (as the Ars writer claims), particularly one which apparently is contrary to earlier studies.

In the comments on Ars, there is a link to this blog post:

It’s an interesting post, particularly when he compares the conclusion in the actual published peer-reviewed article (which calls the results “unclear”) and the press releases from the author (which state things in absolutes).

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I believe, if you compare the numbers the rise in autistic births will correlate precisely with the rise in internet dating.

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Most of the anti-vaccine people have very little in common with the ID people. In fact, they are probably the polar opposite in world-views from my first-hand experience as the non-biological parent of a fairly autistic son.

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I didn’t mean to imply that they’re the same people.

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They’re just equally ignorant of science…

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Sometimes there is overlap.

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I got a good laugh out of this.

I hate statistics, because they can be so easily changed up to prove anyone’s point. It isn’t the numbers that are important, it is how they are represented that is.

Ughh

Also, anti-vaccine people piss me off.

I guarantee you that 99% of those non-vaccine parents would be extremely mad if you started smoking a cigarette in the same room as their child… Even though they freely let their child run around possibly exposing other children to very serious diseases. Second-hand measles anyone?

If you want to look at some awesome statistic usage, read anything from the anti-smoking websites. They are very good with statistics.

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I’m only asking this because thankfully this whole thing is AFAIK completely absent here in Europe: why the hell would there be second hand measles? Aren’t the non-crackpotspawn vaccinated anyway? How is that exposing other children?

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Because you can’t hit a newborn with every possible vaccine. There is a course over the first couple years. You protect the newborns and young toddlers by having all the older kids vaccinated.

A bunch of crackpots who get their medical advice from Jenny McCarthy don’t vaccinate their kids, and their kids get something and come in contact with your 6 month old and s/he gets measles or mumps.

At that point, I believe, you have the right to punch the parents repeatedly in the face while explaining scientific theory.

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What Mal said.
And you’re not right. Like everything else crazy and stupid from America (like Atkins of the obesity epedemic) it’s spreading over here too.

We’re just better insulated because our nanny states don’t let every choice be up to the parents and with free medicare, opting out of vaccinations will never be a financial issue (which can then later be excused away with “fear of autism”).