The Vaccines vs Torch Wielding Mobs debate continues

I haven’t had time to watch any Fox News, particularly their Stupidity Weathervane morning show (Fox and Friends). Have they jumped on the “Moms are smarter than science” bandwagon yet?

I would be surprised if they did… The vast majority of conservatives believe in vaccines too. It’s only a trivially small block of “imbecile votes” in Iowa, of religious home-schoolers (home schoolers not understanding things like science, WHO WOULD HAVE THOUGHT?) who buy into this… and who was basically being courted by these politicians (both of whom have all of their children vaccinated).

Christie is already walking back his statements, because they are so stupid on their face. But I’m not likely to forgive this kind of appeal to idiocy.

Clinton adds her voice to the get-your-kids-vaccinated side.

On the other hand, it fits with their anti-science narrative with regards to evolution, climate change, etc. I wouldn’t be surprised to see their treatment to be sympathetic, even if not a full endorsement.

For Rand, anyway, I suspect it’s less about the science than about his libertarianism. Government doesn’t have a right to force anyone to do anything, even when it really is for the best for everyone, etc…

In my anecdotal experience, there are more anti-vaxxers on the Liberal Hippy GMO Left than on the 6000-year old Earth Right, in absolute terms.

EDIT: I agree re: Paul’s libertarianism.

You’re right, the republicans are reaping what they’ve sown, when they embraced the idiot voter block. But it’s why reasonable conservatives who actually understand science have begun to abandon the party. It’s really only the continued idiocy of the democrats which keeps the republicans going… because the democrats have all kinds of nonsensical anti-science beliefs too… like opposition to nuclear power, or their own anti-vaxxer idiots.

Yesterday was an interesting day for Fox News.

In the morning, they had a pundit on their morning show sagely tell everyone that the anti-vax movement was a progressive construct, something that rose out of the Left. The Fox News drones nodded their heads sagely. I thought: “I disagree, but he can probably defend that point.”

Then we had Chris Christie sashay up to the third rail of antivax. His position on personal freedom is bad, but he can at least say he’s not anti-science.

But…then Rand Paul walked right up to that third rail, dumped a bucket of water on his head and embraced it fully by going with the whole “Vaccines cause brain damage, hurrr” nonsense. That’s some crazy-ass, full-on antivaxxer bullshsit that he’s going to have to reconcile at some point.

Meanwhile, Fox News is going to have to recalibrate themselves.

It’s funny, because all of this seems to stem from President Obama saying simply “The science is in. You should get your kids vaccinated.”

I know that Fox and the GOP make a living by gainsaying anything the President says, but their mindlessly stupid Monty Python Argument Clinic style of debate has gotten them into more and more trouble. Dunno why they keep going to that well.

There have been studies bandied around that indicate that it doesn’t split particularly across left/right lines, but is a delusion people of all political persuasions can enjoy.

That being said, I agree that in my experience it’s also something that I tend to associate with the liberal lunatic fringe on the left moreso than the convservative one. Regardless of the actual numbers, if that’s the perception, Fox may choose to tread more lightly, or at least avoid any consistent position, preferring whatever is convenient for their narrative in any given situation.

Yeah, but like I said, Obama said the same thing in 2008… and in 2008, we knew just as well as we know now, that there was no scientific merit to that idea.
This isn’t a justification, mind you… It’s was an immensely stupid statement by Obama, and it’s just as immensely stupid by Paul. In many ways, even MORE stupid, since he’s a mother fucking DOCTOR. But still, we need to get in the habit of shunning such idiocy, even when spoken by those we otherwise agree with politically. We need to be willing to call it out and say, “That, right there, is stupid as fuck.” and exorcise such things from our own parties. Not just use them as political talking points when criticizing the other party.

Yeah, exactly this.

They have become so entrenched in the position of just denying ANYTHING that Obama says, that they are in a position where Obama needs merely to make statements of blatently obvious truths, in order to get the GOP to make complete asses of themselves by taking up a contrary position founded in idiocy.

“Obama: I think babies are nice, and shouldn’t be murdered.”
“GOP: The government has no place erroding the rights of americans to murder their babies!”
“Voters: Wait… what?”

That’s a plus mark for her, but it’s awful that something this clear cut and simple is debated at all. I can’t believe I’m vetting potential Presidents on the issue of vaccination.

The Obama story that ran in Politico on this has been walked back substantially from yesterday. He still gave this nonsense too much credit in 2008, but he didn’t plant a sloppy kiss on it the way Rand Paul did yesterday, either.

In fairness Christie, at least, is obviously just trying to straddle the line so that he doesn’t seem to not care about individual choice. Standard gutless political crap. Obama has actually suggested that autism might be caused by vaccines and should be further investigated, giving ammunition to the tinfoil hats, which is even worse. Most anti-vaccine support is from young hippies, who aren’t exactly the republican base. They have their share of religious anti-vaccine types though. Seems there’s stupidity enough for all.

Seriously, how fucked up is this shit.
What’s next? Do we need to ask candidates whether they believe the earth is round? Whether the sky is blue?

We’ve already spent time seriously asking nominees about evolution, so why not all sorts of basic science questions?

Mr. Senator, what is your position on the Krebs Cycle?

I think the numbers in trying to compare those groups would be quite different. While the Huckabee types are out there, I don’t think they are in the majority by any means, and when he drops out of the presidential race after a primary or two that will be demonstrated.

True. A medical doctor should know better than to do what Rand Paul did yesterday.

Like I said, he DOES know. Rand Paul doesn’t actually BELIEVE any of that bullshit.

How many of Rand Paul’s kids are vaccinated? All of them, of course. Because he doesn’t want his kids dying of communicable diseases which can be trivially prevented via cheap vaccinations.

But in many ways, this makes his statements even more despicable to me. Because he’s willing to perpetuate lies that he not only knows are lies, but which he knows are HARMFUL lies, in order to make political hay.

He’s not just some dumb hick who believes in anti-vax nonsense because he’s too stupid to know any better. He knows better, and yet he says things which can and will harm other people, to score political points (ironically, with those people who are most likely to be directly harmed by those beliefs).

So you agree, Rand Paul should know better than to say that. The fact that he is preening for a presidential run doesn’t change that fact, it only makes it worse that he would say different.