The Vaccines vs Torch Wielding Mobs debate continues


I was actually thinking about the infant formula disaster than happened in China when I wrote that. I guess I better go look up Kraft and Parmesan.

Anyway it’s hard to get people to trust the system, even a portion of it, when they truly believe that the government will allow companies to poison us for a profit, and get away with it. They’re not entirely wrong with this mistrust are they? At the very least, food companies should sell us actual food.


I don’t know about any specific lawsuits, but the issue with a lot of store-bought powdered Parmesan cheese is that the manufacturers are supplementing the cheese with wood pulp.

A longtime issue in the same vein is olive oils. A lot of extra virgin olive oil is actually plain olive oil. Additionally, the oil itself is sometimes actually grape seed or another oil. The olive oil fraud game is literally centuries old. The Sicilian and Italian mafia are still into olive oil scamming.


I thought there was a lawsuit, but perhaps I am mistaken. Anyhow, yeah, exactly what I am talking about.

And be sure what you buy! There are several ways they can attempt to pull one over on you. For example another common scheme is the increasing introduction of olive pomice oil. It tends to lack some of the flavor and beneficial compounds of virgin, and tends to have a bitter, chemical, aftertaste.


But how can you be sure? One of the reason I took so long in delaying any intro into the natural and organic front was I simply didn’t believe the claims. I kept thinking they’re probably charging me twice as much for the same darn thing with some false label on it. Well I’ve switched some things to a slightly more premium product that gives results I like, but here I am, part of a few class actions and even a few more on the horizon of them basically selling snake oil as organic or “natural”.

I mean I know we’re a little off topic, but it’s this kind thing that has flamed the anti-vaccine movement a bit, at least here, … they believe the corporations sell them garbage and the government is okay with that as long as gets them money and votes. This is the same government they’re supposed to believe when we say the vaccines are safe.


@Nesrie is right. The issue is that as a non-scientist consumer, there’s practically no way to tell with some of these food frauds. Unless you have some way of testing Parmesan or olive oil content, most people can’t tell the difference between a quality product and 80% garbage. As I said, the frauds have been scooting along for centuries in some cases.

Take olive oil. The number one brand in the US is Bertolli. It’s also one of the prime offenders of the practice.


Well, if you get parmesan which is shredded (i.e. not powder in a canister) then it is a little more obvious, in that it visually appears to be pieces of cheese… or you can get a block of it and shred it yourself.

You don’t necessarily know what’s IN the cheese, but it’s potentially better… maybe.


Well, yes. I don’t have anything against the powdered stuff, but we try to buy the blocks and grate it ourselves just because I want to feel better about the content.

Unfortunately, I can’t do anything about olive oil short of buying my own press and buying raw olives. That ain’t happening.


Well the problem is that things like ‘organic’ are lightly, often un, regulated markets. There is no official standard that is government enforced. It is also based upon, in many cases, bad science. The anti-GMO movement is, bluntly, one I have little respect for as it exists. That isn’t to say that I don’t have concerns with how companies like Monsanto behave, but that is distinct from the argumentation that GMO food is toxic.

Inversely vaccines are a part of medical markets, which are far more closely regulated. The science is also very clear about it. While the distrust may stem from a similar place, the details are quite different. We have far stronger saftey standards that are more strictly enforced, and should be!

And, of course, you’re right about the average person lacking the direct means to verify contents. Which is why it is important that consumer protections regulations are enforced. The FDA should have the responsibility to ensure that what we are sold is what it is labeled as.


Plus, the objections about vaccines isn’t just that a consumer has no idea what’s in them. (That’s true for almost every medicine people use.) The torch-wielding mob objects to the very idea that vaccines are beneficial. They think the contents actually cause autism and other issues, and that battling through the flu or chicken pox is better.


Unfortunately over here large sections of the print media were pushing the MRR-vaccine-causes-autism line, often long after it had been thoroughly refuted by the evidence.


Well to be clear, I am not anti-GMO. I’ve not jumped on that bandwagon at all although I don’t see an issue with labels that give information in general.

Let me put it another way, if you can’t trust the government to make sure yoga mat ingredients aren’t in bread, wood isn’t in cheese, and unsafe peanut butter factories are shut down what makes anyone think when they finally show up with data that says these things are safe for their children they’ll believe them?

I still believe that the inability for these people to see these diseases in action has made them to easy to dismiss their dangerous.They can’t possibly be okay with MMR if they actually encountered it. They’ve spent their lives in safety from these diseases and due to their irresponsibility we’re seeing them again.


By California Olive Oil.

This brand is available from most grocers. Also I believe that Spanish oil has a pretty reliable reputation. Pretty much if it doesn’t taste “olive-y” - which brands like Bertolli do not, it’s probably doctored. Americans like the taste of fake olive oil the same reason they like the taste of tilapia; it’s utterly bland and inoffensive.

Buy Sartori parmesan if you want reliable US cheese.


Because more often than not, they are.


But how do I know you’re not a paid shill???


Does anyone have a good recipe for herbed Parmesan bread dipping oil?


Good sir! I’m a charlatan, not a shill!


I’ll shill for this as well; by far and away the best bang for your buck (and it’s reliably “real”)


I hope Aldi olive oil is real. It is from Spain.


I bought a bottle of that fancy californy oil. Will report on it after I try it.


Yeah this is a local brand apparently at all our stores. I’ll give it a try when I empty my bottle of whatever the hell it really is too.

Also speaking of… sources of stuff, this is just appalling

The most attention-getting stat was 48% of people didn’t know how chocolate milk is made, while 7% believe that it comes from brown cows. (Where do these 7% of Americans think that Peeps milk comes from?)

oh and this too:

For example, the U.S. Department of Agriculture found that 12.3% of people surveyed in Missouri and Indiana thought that hamburger was made from the meat of pigs, and 5.9% didn’t know what it was made of.

So somewhere between these either dumb as rock or lived under a rock individuals and people who believe in science is a group of individuals who kind of don’t believe a word their government tells them anymore.