The Vaccines vs Torch Wielding Mobs debate continues


#922

Just set the houses of the anti-vaxxers on fire.


#923

Nah, that’s too harsh. The NW needs housing right now.

Just set the anti-vaxxers on fire, while they are outside their houses. Preserve the infrastructure.


#924

Their infrastructure is probably infested with polio.

We must cleanse it with fire.


#925


#926

LOL! Polio is one of those made up things by globalists seeking to establish a world government to de-Americanize you and control every aspect of your life.

Don’t believe me? Name one person you know personally that has polio. CHECKMATE!


#927

My dad had polio back when he was 13 years old. There was no iron lung available (reasons unclear) so the doctors and nurses had some sort of daily treatment where they’d give some sort of massage or something (also I’m not clear on the details).

He spent the entire summer - 3 months! - hospitalized. His twin brother could not see him for that entire time due to risk of polio spreading to him.

Antivaxxers really annoy me.


#928

They get me angry. My coworkers today were asking questions about measles, due to the outbreak in nearby Clark County. I got angry just talking about it.

Fuck this religious exemption nonsense. Medical reason of your kid literally is immune compromised such that the vaccine is a health risk only. Or go to jail. No excuses, no exceptions.


#929

Preach, brother.


#930

I’m willing to make exceptions if they agree to leave the country. I hope they like the 3rd world.


#931

People in developing countries usually like vaccines. They know what the alternative is.

And yes, people who don’t vaccinate their kids should be tried for abuse. Religion is not an excuse for child endangerment.


#932

I’m sure they could find someplace off the radar in Africa for a while. Or they get shot in the process or something. Either way works for me. Hell, we’ll even take the kid back.


#933

Interesting Vox article on why people fall for anti-vaxx idiocy, and also why the conventional arguments have not been effective thus far.

Basically, anti-vaxxers focus on the moral principles of liberty and purity, while most of the pro-vaccination messaging focuses on care/harm and fairness.

Quote from the article: " Parents who are concerned about vaccines prize liberty and purity

People who value liberty are concerned with individual freedom and resent others’ dominance over them, while those who value purity disapprove “of acts that are deemed ‘disgusting’ or ‘unnatural,’” the researchers wrote. (That squares with the findings of sociologist Jennifer Reich, who studies the anti-vaccine movement. She’s found vaccine-hesitant parents tend to favor natural and organic food, for example.)

“This is important because many of our go-to arguments about herd immunity and keeping your children safe are themed around values of harm and fairness,” said the Emory study’s lead author, epidemiologist Avnika Amin.

Public health campaigns typically seek primarily to educate on potential harms, reminding parents that getting immunized helps prevent outbreaks, and protects those who can’t be vaccinated, like people with allergies to vaccines or very young children.

But those may not be the values that resonate with vaccine-hesitant parents. The researchers found that parents who were concerned about vaccinating their children scored similarly to parents who weren’t when it came to the morals of harm and fairness."

The article suggests ways to re-package the messaging to make it more effective: point out that failing to vaccinate spreads contamination to other children, etc.

I’m in favor of much stricter enforcement, but if re-framed messaging can help, that’s good too.


#934

Or we could just quit even calling it a discussion, and force vaccinations. End of argument. You can’t reason with delusional people.


#935

Yeah, this isn’t really an issue where we need to pretend it’s a discussion to have. There is how it will be, and anyone who doesn’t like it can lose their kids. And maybe get sterilized.


#936

Seriously, just force vaccinations on them. Just take them into custody and vaccinate then.


#937

ie. Libertarians and Republicans


#938

Really, now… there’s been tons of examples that antivax lunacy crosses across all political divides. Nothing is gained by trying to tar right, left, or center as being ‘the problem’ when it comes to vaccine resistance. It’s an apolitical issue.


#939

Plenty of progressive anti-vaxxers. They correlate strongly with the Organic and non-GMO movements, see the “purity” value above.


#940

The article I linked above references the “5 moral foundations” concept that has been gathering some attention lately, so it’s not political per se. The 5 moral foundations do loosely correlate with political affiliation.

I think my big take away from the whole “5 moral foundations” idea is that people’s outlooks are not symmetrical: for people like most of us posters, the care/harm and fairness foundations are very strong and so the anti-vaxx position is not just wrong but also deeply stupid and offensive. Meanwhile, some of the anti-vaxx folks look at things from a totally different POV, so they just don’t get our arguments.

Note: I’m not a moral relativist; I think the anti-vaxx folks are both idiotic and dangerous. But the point is, they are starting from a totally different POV, which is why the current messaging is not working.

Which means, either harsh enforcement, or changed messaging are necessary, maybe both. Given the seriousness of the issue, at least some enforcement is probably necessary.


#941

I know, however I assumed the purity stance was from a religious perspective like my anti-vax sister-in-law.