+1. Let your brain switch gears. S2 is remarkable stuff.
Boy, I have really fond memories of Season 2 from watching it for the first time 6 months ago or so. I liked the change of focus, and I thought a lot of the dockworkers were appealingly complex characters.
S2 might be my favorite. Loved what it said about where the series was going, and awesome characters. I also totally crushed on Amy Ryan.
I liked where Season 2 ended up, but it sure had some boring episodes. When I’m recommending the show to other people, I’m usually worried that they won’t give Season 1 a real chance, and then I’m worried that they will give it a chance, and then get to Season 2 and won’t be able to slog through the boring episodes of Season 2.
I loved season 2. I never found any part of Season 2 boring.
Yeah, Season 2 is great. It’s jarring the first time you watch the show, for sure though. Second time I watched it though, I knew where things were going, and I actually watched…and goddamn I love everything about the Sobotkas and their storyline and how it fits into the narrative arc of the series.
The best advice to give someone who hasn’t seen the show and is about to try to watch: “It may seem like it at first, but the show kind of isn’t about Jimmy McNulty. And it really isn’t about Avon Barksdale and Stringer Bell. Even though it’s gonna seem that way for a good while.”
Heh. I wonder if we should warn them that
he’s going to turn into a corrupt cop in Season 5? :)
Yes, I find that when recommending viewed entertainment to people – whether it’s movies or TV – what really helps sell it is to give them major plot spoilers from late in the story arc. That’s always a great idea.
Heh. Major plot spoilers. It’s not like it’s something that relates to any other season. He just suddenly changes in a single episode.
Do you feel like the McNulty of Season 1 wouldn’t pull the same stunts? I feel like everything he does is him trying to prove he’s smarter than everyone else.
I’m maybe not that sensitive to spoilers, but I feel like in the context of a TV show, where there are long arcs, teasing something like what McNulty ends up doing later can be an enticement to see how he gets there and why. Maybe it’s just me. I just think that spoilers work differently for a medium like that.
Yeah, I never could decide if I should be upset at McNulty’s corruption or not. On the one hand, if the writers had to have one of the characters we’ve been following in the police be corrupt, McNulty is the most likely choice. But on the other hand, I did feel like it came out of nowhere, and was rather sudden, which is not usually this show’s M.O. So it was a disappointment in that respect.
And yeah, I’m usually very spoiler-averse, but this is not one of those things revealed in the show, but a premise.
Season 1 Premise: Show the Projects of Baltimore, include residents, cops, judges.
Season 2 Premise: Show the docks of Baltimore, include international criminals, dock workers
Season 3 Premise: Show the politicians of Baltimore, wrap up the grand story started in Season 1
Season 4 Premise: Show the education system of Baltimore, follow a group of kids in the city, and a cop we know who becomes a teacher
Season 5 Premise: Show the media system of Baltimore, and show what would happen with a corrupt McNulty.
I think triggercut’s suggestion is enough of a tease—that the show isn’t ultimately just about these characters. Just gotta know who you’re talking to though. I have one friend who I’ve come to accept just enjoys entertainment in a very different way than I do, it took me a long time to realize and it still feels weird, but spoiling things for him is the best way to talk about movies and TV shows sometimes. I’ve got other friends I wouldn’t dream of talking to in the same way.
As for McNulty, I re-watched The Wire earlier this year McNulty’s actions in season 5 seem better supported and more plausible than I remembered. I definitely don’t feel like they flipped a switch and he’s suddenly acting UnMcNultyish.
I don’t know if I’d say McNulty of season one would pull the same stunts, but it was believable that the McNulty that developed through seasons one, two, three, and four could behave the way he did in five.
Please use spoiler tags, yes it’s an ancient show but some people haven’t watched it yet.
Season 2 sucked because half the new characters were cartoon characters. From that idiot JarJar Binks Ziggy, to the girls Omar teamed up with, to Brother Mouzone, and Cheese-fucking-Method-Man, the least interesting Greek ever, and that fucking duck. Nearly all the new additions were outright terrible and just didn’t fit in more serious world the first season had presented. Sure, the first season had puh-lenty of comedy, but for the most part they were believable people in a believable world. Season Two just shit a bunch of cartoon and comic book characters into the mix and then followed that up with poor writing.
The first half of the season chokes on heaps of incestuous coincidence with all parts of the old squad finding their way back to the exact same case from too many different angles, forced plot, and unbelievable circumstances.
I just can’t stand half the new players or the ridiculous leaps the writers had to make to finally get shit moving 4 or 5 episodes into the season.
I hated Ziggy the first time through, but every time I’ve rewatched it I’ve enjoyed his comedic, pathetic, tragic arc. He’s supposed to be a pretty detestable screw-up of a guy, but he’s a great character. He’s family, what can you do?
Brother Mouzone is a little larger than life, but no more so than Omar himself.
And you’ve got to give me a little more to go on than just saying characters are cartoons, what was wrong with the girls Omar runs with for a while or Cheese? They were all believable and fit in with the rest of the world of The Wire.
As for getting a lot of the same crew back together, it all comes down to McNulty intentionally trying to stick it to Rawls. It would be weird if Beadie found the container and her bosses said “You know what this case needs? McNulty and Bunk”, but that’s not what happened at all. McNulty stumbles into the case honestly working his new marine post, tries to throw it on homocide to screw Rawls, and it works, so naturally that means dragging in the rest of that dept.
McNulty’s “corruption” made perfect sense to me, and was just another story the writers wanted to tell that was consistent with the system.
Popular culture is full of love for the anti-hero, the tough cop who doesn’t play by the rules and gets things done. It also loves the guy who is always on the edge of playing by the rules, but who eventually gets thrown over into acting outside of the rules because the system is corrupt, doesn’t provide enough resources, etc., and going outside of the system is the only way he can get true justice.
McNulty was always skirting the edge. Always thought along those lines that if they’d just give me what I need and listen to me, we’d resolve all of this and make the world safer.
But unlike movies like Lethal Weapon, when the Wire characters do finally go rogue, what results is an even greater breakdown of law and order, and unintended consequences. Also, when those characters go rogue, it is just as much a matter of their huge egos, narcissism, and impatience as it is some burning passion for justice. The Wire, once again, subverts cop shows for what they are, and tries to hew to what happens in the real world with these types of personalities.
So I liked the McNulty arc, and thought it was a natural progression for his character.
But Beadie Russell!!
I enjoy her character. Plus it’s an interesting backstory for Michael Scott’s wife.
Phew - I just finished the last episode of Season 5 of The Wire. So many feelings!
I know I missed a ton of stuff Mr Simon wanted to say, and reading up on 5th season, I missed the most crucial one, about the newpaper room.
All in all, this is probably the finest show I ever saw - When I started it back in the day, I thought this was a cop show, not unlike NY Blues and those others, but man - this is really something else.
There are a lot of extremely qoateable sayings in the show, but the one that struck me the most was the one about the War on Drugs, and wars makes soldiers out of cops, and soldiers, needs enemies. So those people on the corners, become the enemy, and the cops become the solders who fights them.
Its so ugly, and its the way I see a lot of government officials approach their life, even in Denmark.
Anyways - I must admit that I have a ton of things I wanted to discuss, but I guess I am a few years too late :-D
I enjoyed ALL the seasons, even season two and season five which I see were problematic for many.
One thing I found really interesting, is how many of the cast were actually former criminals, doing exactly what the criminals on the show were doing. Snoop, and the minister being the two first on my mind. All were excellent actors though, and I believed everything they sold me.
Can anything other from David Simon come close the Wire in quality?
Thanks for sharing your thoughts! The Wire is my favorite show I’ve ever seen, and I first heard about it from qt3.
Regarding Simon’s later work, there’s been a few and they’re all good. My recommendation is to start with the miniseries “show me a hero”, it’s short but really great. It’s also the most wire-like in feel.
Treme is great too, it has really moving character arcs and gives you a real sense of another culture. It does lack the hooks of the wire though, and requires more patience. But if you enjoyed season 2 of the wire there’s a good chance you’ll enjoy this.
As you know, the deuce is his latest and I still need to finish it before commenting.