Agreed. It’s just another factor in our decision making.

Ya know, Microsoft doesn’t know you, or your family, so it isn’t personal. They are making business decisions on a gaming machine that is part of their business plan, trying to figure out how to make the most money for their shareholders. Not because they love or hate gamers or gaming or QT3 or anyone individual.

Same for Sony.

So, yeah, we should let them know our opinions of their business decisions, in terms of what will make us decide to buy or not buy, but at the end of the day it’s a decision to buy the box that most fills our need. My plan currently is a PS4, because it appears to have better hardware and more power and my hope is that results in a better gaming experience. But if MS makes changes that makes their box a better gaming experience and worth the extra $100, I’ll go with them. No emotion involved. If MS or Sony start taking poor people’s food away or funding clinics to kill kittens or contributing to the Tea Party, OK, then I may let my feelings about them as a corporation influence the decision. Otherwise - let 'em duke it out, figure out from market response what people want and don’t want, sit and eat popcorn and watch while I try to catch up on my huge backlog on my current 360 and PS3, and then after all the reviews are in, others have tested the boxes and provided hands on experience of what these boxes are like (vs. marketing hype,) THEN is the time (for me) to plunk down some cash and buy a new box to play games on.

Just a FWIW

I’m not sure “trying to fix everything” is something most sane people see as “quite pathetic” and “lacking convinction, leadership, and vision.”

How about something like: “Hey, look at that – a headset’s included now. That’s a step in the right direction.”

It has become more appealing. It’s that people do not trust a company that tried to see how much it could get away with fucking over the consumer, and only backed down when forced to by a massive public relations hit.

It’s not like they did the calculus and said, “You know, we really don’t need to do all of those terrible things, the better way to go would be to remove those restrictions.” They said, “Oh shit, we’ve been called on our bullshit, we’d better reign it in for now or else we aren’t going to sell these things.”

It’s like the man who smacks around his kids, and stops doing it for awhile because the neighbors noticed. My guess is that the guy is still a dirtball, and is probably going to still try to get away with anything he thinks he can. He’ll also probably think about smacking the kids around again once the furor dies down.

Basically, I don’t trust people who try to see how much they can get away with, and only back down when they realize that I’m on to their bullshit and it won’t work. I’d rather deal with someone who treats me fairly without my having to be aggressive about it, because I believe that person will also be more likely to treat me fairly in the future when I don’t have as much leverage, aren’t as watchful, etc.

If this were reddit, I would upvote this piece of awesomeness:

And downvote this piece of utter silliness:

Actually, calling this “silly” is wrong. In all sincerity, it is utterly abhorrent to compare your reaction to a company’s decision to improve their offering in the marketplace with the trauma a child suffers from the horrors of being physically and emotionally abused. C’mon man. You have to recognize that that crossed a line. Please rephrase.

Pretty much this exactly.

I’m glad – very, very glad – that Microsoft is listening to their consumers and is trying to improve their product based on consumer backlash. That is exactly what they should be doing. The backstep on the DRM features were exactly what they should have done and I’m glad they did it (even if they took an “all-or-nothing” stance and said “fine, we don’t have to play, but now I’m taking my ball and going home”.)

But for a lot of consumers, that good will they fostered with the 360? Gone completely. They tried to get away with something and got caught and now are trying to pull a rug over the mess by saying “Look, here’s a headset!” It’s pretty infuriating, really. (For the record, as much as they say they have reversed course on indie devs, I’ll believe it when I hear testimonials from indie devs that don’t call Microsoft horrible business partners that squash the little guy. The proof is in the pudding, as they say; right now, it’s all just talk.)

And the whole invasion of privacy scandal with the US government, and Microsoft being in on it (and now one of their products is forcing you to use a camera that is required to be active 24/7), doesn’t fall in that category? I feel differently and I’m sure many others do as well. And I don’t even live in the States!

Actually that’s exactly the way I think about it too. Sure it’s not sensitive but it’s an apt comparison. Let’s just make it more PC by saying your neighbor/friend said he was going to so something horrible to you involving your bum. Finally, after a lot of peer pressure he was convinced not to follow through. Can you honestly say you would feel the same about your friend as you did before he threatened to deflower you?

Or replace “child” with “dog”; same thing. It’s not sensitive and may be taking it to an extreme but that’s the point. It’s reductio ad absurdum, people use it all the time, and it creates an apt comparison for the situation at hand.

Yeah, this thread is not getting better. Really guys? You are comparing this to child abuse and anal rape?

Sorry, I find this behavior disgusting. Truly.

And I find your avoidance of responding to the issue disturbing. But fair enough:

“A CEO plans to fire an employee because he figures he can get a bigger paycheck himself but disguises it as simple cost reduction. The employee finds out about this and goes to their union, who steps in and intercedes, promising legal action if CEO doesn’t back down. So the CEO reverses his plan – specifically because he was caught – and starts lavishing the employee with perks. But he’s still looking for ways to cut costs and has a sore spot where that employee is concerned, and won’t forget what happened. And the employee no longer feels safe working for that individual because he knows that he has a target on his back.”

There. Surely there isn’t anything inherently wrong in that analogy.

That’s exactly how a lot of people feel with Microsoft. They were promised things that weren’t delivered and found out they were getting shafted, got upset, MS backed down. But that doesn’t mean they’ve changed their stripes entirely, only that they are trying to compensate for the negative response they have gotten.

Certainly better but honestly still extreme. To this I’ll say what I said before: I just don’t see it this way. At all.

The depth of emotion here (as is evident by how you guys are describing your feelings - literally comparing this to child abuse and rape or a boss taking money from you to pad his salary) is something I simply do not get or understand.

Did you feel this way when the PS3 dropped the PS2 compatibility? Or when they cut the USB ports? Those were changes they made a product AFTER it launched. More importantly, is this how you react to all companies?

You guys are just arguing for the sake of it.

Jake, the PS3 backwards compatibility and port changes isn’t the same thing at all. They did have backwards compatibility in their launch consoles and then later revisions had that feature cut. If you got the earlier console, then you kept that feature. They were upfront about the change and while it upset some people, it wasn’t that big a deal because the PS2 was dirt cheap by then. If you really wanted to play PS2 games, there was a way to do it.

On the flipside, MS changing direction for the XBONE was a revelatory event because it showed customers that MS wanted to go in a direction that was basically every gamer’s nightmare about the hobby confirmed. An always-on, family-friendly, motion-controlled, social media future in which you don’t own anything. MS changed the XBONE policy, but everyone got a peek behind the curtain and it’s hard to forget that.

You’re downplaying the reaction that people have to that. It may not bother you, but this is something that strikes a deep emotional note with many gamers considering the direction the industry seems to be headed. Of course, the other posters here are being just as dismissive by not acknowledging that corporations are exactly that. They do whatever they think will make them the most money and secure the future. Sony isn’t being the good guy because they care about people - they saw a vulnerability in their competitor and jumped on it. If Sony had their way, they’d applaud the same future in which no customer ever owns a piece of entertainment media again.

Yes, honestly. Sony dropped the ball hard on that and I was severely disappointed when I heard I couldn’t play my old games. It didn’t affect me as much personally – I still have my original 60GB PS3 that runs as smooth as a dream – but I had friends who were infuriated by the change when they needed to trade in their original models for the Slim, and I was upset right along with them because I felt Sony pulled an unneeded 180 on a selling feature. That being said, they were losing the race at that point so they needed to change tack and I understand that from a business perspective.

What truly enrages me about how Microsoft approached this reveal was that they didn’t do their homework beforehand. The product as announced at reveal was a joke, a blatant money-grab and had some fairly totalitarian measures in it. Microsoft as a company has proved themselves somewhat untrustworthy (with the government security issue) and arrogant (with the initial belief that they had a good product worth the asking price). I think if they had done this market research before the reveal – if they had asked groups of people what they thought, gotten feedback that way and then made decisions before revealing the product to the public – I would have no problem with the Xbox One. At all. This is obviously what Sony did for the PS4 – they took their past experiences, obviously did some networking with developers and the like – and came out with a product that fit the demand from the get-go.

Sony has had more experience with embarrassment in the industry (see: the life of the PS3, from birth to present) so maybe they were a bit more accepting of input in that regard. In contrast, Microsoft was a victim to their own hubris, trying to blaze a trail they figured everyone would follow but no one wanted to. It’s fantastic – seriously, I’m very glad – that MS is backtracking and listening to what their consumers want now. But it’s after the fact. The damage has been done and they are trying to control the spread; and they keep shooting themselves in the foot. Instead of asking, “So we were thinking of forcing you to buy a brand-new headset; thoughts?”, they stated it as fact, got negative press, and decided to reverse course and make it free in-box. After the fact.

They are trying to see how much they can get away with and that’s what makes me sick. They aren’t listening to their consumers; they’re reacting to bad press. If they were truly listening – or maybe a better statement would be “if they cared about what their consumers thought” – they would listen before they announced a product. QA, product testing, focus groups; it’s like Microsoft has never heard of these things! Maybe they figured that, after the huge success of the 360, consumers would rank brand loyalty higher than product comparison. Turns out that’s not the case; who knew?

Fair cop, my friend. I think Sony is the more competent company in this instance, specifically because they are pandering to their audience much better than Microsoft, but that doesn’t mean I think the corporation as a whole is any better. If they could get away it, both Sony and MS would gouge us out of all our sense of ownership and force us to pay for every little thing. At the moment, though, Sony seems to have the wherewithal to understand that they can’t get away with – not right now, at least – and so MS appears to be worse by comparison.

It’s the same way Activision and EA alternate between being the worst publishers; they’re both the same style of company, looking at the bottom line, but the perceived notion of which one is more “evil” changes with every turn of the moon.

Yeah… I’m not “downplaying” that reaction anymore. It’s very, very, very evident that some people here feel super intensely about Microsoft and the Xbox One. And not in a good way. Not even in a “We love Sony! Microsoft sucks!” way. They literally compare their feelings as akin to an abused child or someone threatened with rape or how a worker would feel if a boss stole their money.

So yeah… I am not disputing that you guys have these feelings. You guys have totally convinced me that you feel burned. On that count you… uh… won?

I can only say that I’m not with you. And I hope I never feel that way about a company. To me, it seems like a complete loss of perspective in life.

I truly have found these reactions disturbing. It makes me wonder… if you have this much hatred toward Microsoft, then why come in here to begin with? No one is forcing you to relive this trauma.

Whitten on “Sharing” and “Home Gold”. TL;DR version: Works exactly the way download games and PS Plus works on PS4.

Yeah, just saw that also: Here’s the paragraph that sums it up for me:

What’s really going to be interesting is if the rumors about the Amazon console turn out to be true, their console will push Amazon Prime memberships with all-digital games and media. No one will gripe about it because it’s Amazon, and that’s what they’ve trained their customers to expect.

They are an utterly fascinating company. Anyone who wants to know what they’re like should read the article in Forbes. Key highlights (these are from memory, so they might be slightly off):

  • No powerpoint allowed. All proposals have to be in memo form - and no longer than six pages
  • All salaries are capped. I think the most you can earn is $185k. The rest is stock. Basically, Bezos wants to create a culture where everyone is pushing for the company
  • Bezos read random client complaints… and personally tracks down how the problem happened and gets them fixed.
  • They make most of their money now from digital stuff - but even then, Amazon’s margins are razor thin (well, when you compare them to other companies)

Definitely worth a read.

Updated with the link: http://management.fortune.cnn.com/2012/11/16/jeff-bezos-amazon/

Its also very very very evident that you have zero “empathy” here and your posts are incredibly condescending, basically saying other people are losers, have lost all perspective and not only in this, but IN LIFE for dramatic effect. Its a lot cleaner to attack the argument instead of people and the feelings you ascribe to their posts.

Anyways - The xbox will be interesting, I am here personally because I am interested in consoles. I am glad MS got hit hard and had to back down, and we are now getting closer to them approaching a workable solution. They still have a ways to go though.

The Amazon console is interesting as well, especially since they have a VERY large userbase they can exploit as I see it. Thats woth a lot of money.

I stated how I feel. You stated how you feel. I think we were both clear.