The Zeropunctuation thread

Jarmo · 2009-12-18T12:50:56.000Z

BobJustBob:

It’s all fun and games until he reviews a game you like.

No, his barbs and stings were blunt because he had not gained the intimacy with the game to deliver lines that would really penetrate and hurt. He’s like a guy you just met who tries to diss you. It just doesn’t work and it makes the guy look a bit silly.

Hanacker · 2009-12-18T12:52:09.000Z

Zylon:

You know what’s an exponentially more effective way to teach players vital lessons? Spelling them out.

Fuck that. Nobody wants to read in a video game.

Jarmo · 2009-12-18T12:57:42.000Z

Zylon:

You know what’s an exponentially more effective way to teach players vital lessons? Spelling them out.

I don’t know about that in this case. People don’t tend to immediately do what you tell them to do. But kill their avatar a couple of dozen times first and they really start to pay attention.

A lot of the pleasure of the game is in finding your own solutions. It’s an integral part of it and the way it’s non-presented to you reveals a lot about the experience in store for you. It also gets you used to dying often. That you need to do or you will not make it far in this game because you will blow a gasket.

noun · 2009-12-18T12:59:26.000Z

Jarmo:

Oh, and how does your post fail the same way Croshaw’s review does? By making inaccurate assumptions and letting your preconceived notions guide the judging of a game that breaks current conventions.

Good God, that was pretentious.

kerzain · 2009-12-18T13:02:21.000Z

Hanacker:

Fuck that. Nobody wants to read in a video game.

I may not want to read instructional information (ever ever ever), but I enjoy reading text in games when it’s part of the game itself like in Beterayal in Krondor: lots of riddles and scene setting/description.

Every single game I’ve ever played that uses heavy doses of text to serve as a tutorial though has annoyed me.

Jarmo · 2009-12-18T13:05:28.000Z

noun:

Good God, that was pretentious.

That’s not the worst part. The worst part is that it’s not a misrepresentation of the issue.

ShivaX · 2009-12-18T13:09:05.000Z

Jarmo:

Yeah, that’s the key. Because I know Demon’s Souls well and I therefore found Croshaw’s review inadequate I’m now unsure whether to trust his reviews of games I don’t know.

You allowed his reviews to influence your opinions on games in the first place?

Cause if that was the case you probably wouldn’t have bought any game he ever reviewed.

Zylon · 2009-12-18T13:14:26.000Z

ShivaX:

Cause if that was the case you probably wouldn’t have bought any game he ever reviewed.

Except Psychonauts.

Rock8man · 2009-12-18T13:15:25.000Z

And Portal.

Jarmo · 2009-12-18T13:15:53.000Z

ShivaX:

You allowed his reviews to influence your opinions on games in the first place?

His reviews contain intelligent and insightful analysis among the clever trash-talking. It is possible to be able to sift the former from the stream of the latter and to bank the nuggets.

Lynxara · 2009-12-18T13:17:38.000Z

ShivaX:

I love when people harp on him for “not getting it” or “doing it wrong” when hes already said countless times that his reviews basically focus on the worst aspects of a game and if those things don’t bother you then you’ll probably like the game.

I don’t think Yahtzee actually focused on Demon’s Souls’s worst attributes (well, besides ragging on the name-- man, that name had it coming). Since Yahtzee put down the controller so early on, there’s all sorts of stupid shit in the game he didn’t even touch on.

For instance, you spend a lot of the game rescuing NPCs. It’s an RPG, what else would you do? But there’s one NPC where if you rescue him, he does nothing but kill other NPCs you’ve already rescued. You have no way of knowing he’ll do this ahead of time. If he kills NPCs that sell you important items, your game is irrevocably fucked.

A world where Yahtzee had ragged on that would make me very happy indeed.

Jarmo · 2009-12-18T13:24:23.000Z

Lynxara:

You have no way of knowing he’ll do this ahead of time.

Well, you do get some strong hints about the psycho from another NPC. It doesn’t reveal the full extent of the havoc he will wreak, though. It’s one of the few instances of the game being unfairly cruel. Usually it’s just fairly cruel.

Shimarenda · 2009-12-18T13:30:44.000Z

Yahtzee’s review fails because it didn’t answer the most pressing question I have about the game: Is there a titular demon with multiple souls, or could the developer’s not find anyone with a grasp of English to name the game for that market?

Jarmo · 2009-12-18T13:44:40.000Z

Shimarenda:

Is there a titular demon with multiple souls?

There are hundreds of them. All of the opponents in the game are demons and they are each in possession of from hundreds to hundreds of thousands stolen human souls. You get the souls for yourself when you kill the demons and you use them as money in the game.

Zylon · 2009-12-18T13:47:54.000Z

Jarmo:

All of the opponents in the game are demons and they are each in possession of from hundreds to hundreds of thousands stolen human souls.

So the game’s title really should have been Demons’ Souls.

Gus_Smedstad1 · 2009-12-18T13:50:55.000Z

Lynxara:

But there’s one NPC where if you rescue him, he does nothing but kill other NPCs you’ve already rescued. You have no way of knowing he’ll do this ahead of time. If he kills NPCs that sell you important items, your game is irrevocably fucked.

So, you’re saying that enjoying the game pretty much requires that you read a walkthrough before playing it the first time? Assuming you’re not a masochist, of course.

Gus

Lynxara · 2009-12-18T13:51:23.000Z

Shimarenda:

Is there a titular demon with multiple souls,

Yes, actually!

Jarmo · 2009-12-18T13:55:03.000Z

Zylon:

So the game’s title really should have been Demons’ Souls.

Well, one could argue that the game is not really about masses of opponents like Serious Sam but is instead focused on individual encounters so it is not inaccurate to retrict the title to the singular, but that would cement one’s reputation as an apologist for the game to an unshakeable degree. So let’s not do that, shall we?

Lynxara · 2009-12-18T14:01:28.000Z

Gus_Smedstad:

So, you’re saying that enjoying the game pretty much requires that you read a walkthrough before playing it the first time?

You either need to have been warned about this guy or you need to have deciphered some in-game clues. There’s debate among fans about how obvious the various in-game clues are. I think they’re way too vague, but that’s just my opinion.

Once he starts his killing spree, it is perfectly possible to kill him before he takes out any of your important NPCs. Catching him in the act isn’t hard, so I suspect that’s how the game is supposed to work on a first pass-- you rescue him, see he’s a psycho, then pick him off yourself.

One of Demon’s Souls more interesting mechanics is that all of the NPCs are killable, friendly or otherwise. If you opt to make your character a rat bastard, there are some sidequests that let you have fun with this.

quatoria · 2009-12-18T14:02:10.000Z

Jarmo:

No, his barbs and stings were blunt because he had not gained the intimacy with the game to deliver lines that would really penetrate and hurt. He’s like a guy you just met who tries to diss you. It just doesn’t work and it makes the guy look a bit silly.

Oh, I’d have to disagree there. He didn’t know what he was talking about when he trashed the game, but his frustrated litany of deaths was still pretty damned funny. It’s just a shame that he ended up presenting an inaccurate picture of the game to people who will now not think twice about it - but, hey, that’s life.