thanks tbaldree :)

This week: Darksiders

It’s still a pretty good first attempt from a studio.

Outstanding.

It is definitely impressive that a new studio was able to make something as large and complex competently and without any tremendous flaws or bugs. Next time maybe they can put the tracing paper away and draw freehand a bit.

Completely agreed. Though to be fair, people don’t slam Nintendo for making another Zelda, or Sony for making another God of War. Ultimately, they are simply tracing previous games as well. The original creators are rarely involved in those cases so is it really that much different?

That Torchlight is a copy^H^H^H^Hrefinement of Diablo shouldn’t really surprise anyone; they want to make money, and it turns out that’s a good way to do it.

For some reason, the one aspect of, uh, homage that kinda irritates me is that the music feels like it was lifted note for note. I mean, it wasn’t, not literally, but somehow it being that close to the Diablo II ambient soundtrack just seemed, I dunno. Insulting?

You’re aware that D2 and Torchlight had the same guy do the music, yes?

Matt was talking about Darksiders, not Torchlight.

People surely do slam Nintendo for making another Zelda. Well, not -exactly- for making another Zelda at all, but for the fact that pretty much every Zelda game hits pretty much every note the previous games have. They manage to be fun despite the -extremely- well worn formula, imho. But the criticisms are absolutely out there.

Yahtzee hisself basically trashed the Phantom Hourglass for being a Zelda game and the fact that he was just sick of Link and the general formula, and wanted them to mix it up. What did he want it to be more like? Okami. I thought (what I could be bothered playing of) the Phantom Hourglass was a rote, boring mess of a game with many, many flaws but that was a pretty hilariously off-target criticism.

God of War not so much, but there’s only been two of those so far. If GoW3 isn’t something that at least expands the combat and puzzle design of the other two (I would say moving to a new system ups the ante in that department), I bet Sony will get some heat of that nature.

However, people slam Nintendo for that all the time. Yahtzee slams Nintendo for making another Zelda in the Darksiders review, for crying out loud. One of the biggest strikes against Twilight Princess is that it’s basically just Ocarina’s elements shuffled and run through an “edgy” filter. However, there is one key thing that I feel Zelda succeeds at that is lacking in Darksiders.

Every good Zelda game (and admittedly they’re not all good, and some are not as good as Darksiders) has a few twists on the old formulas and tools that make me say “Oh, that’s clever.” Darksiders has nothing of this nature. When obstacles or puzzles are introduced, the solution is immediately obvious and is simply a matter of going through the motions. The absolute worst example of this in the genre is the Temple of the Ocean King in Phantom Hourglass. While Darksiders is just dull in this regard, Phantom Hourglass is actively infuriating.

Unwavering predictability absolutely permeates Darksiders (at least as far as I got in it before losing interest entirely), and I was constantly irritated by the lack of any kind of misdirection or sleight of hand when it comes to the level or puzzle design. I actually only fully realized this while playing Divinity II of all things, after hitting a gate that had a lever next to it that did nothing. To open the gate you had to spot a series of platforms earlier on that would lead you to the true lever, high above the floor. As I pulled that lever, I thought, “Darksiders never even tried that hard to fool me with anything.” Zelda’s water temples, for example, are notorious for making you figure out exactly what you need to do through experimentation and visualization. Every puzzle I encountered in Darksiders lacks this aspect entirely, which is why I find it so dull and unrewarding.

Again, I don’t think it’s a bad game. I think it’s an entirely competent game with, as Yahtzee says, no soul and nothing of its own to offer. People who counter this complaint with “but Zelda’s the same thing every time” or something similar just miss the point of the complaint entirely, in my opinion. By way of analogy, I don’t care how great a Led Zeppelin cover band is, it’s not the same as seeing Led Zeppelin in concert. I get that that distinction isn’t as important to some people, but it is to me.

Just to offer the reverse, I still enjoy the basic Zelda formula and by extension I enjoyed Darksiders for the same reasons, even if I wasn’t playing a dude wearing a pointy green hat. Then again, I’m also looking forward to Mega Man 10.

Puzzles did get pretty interesting later on, mostly in the Black Throne (though that’s a point where some people felt it began to get tedious). Several of the optional chests do a nice job of putting new wrinkles into the basic puzzle design as well.

Two sequels, you mean.

If GoW3 isn’t something that at least expands the combat and puzzle design of the other two (I would say moving to a new system ups the ante in that department), I bet Sony will get some heat of that nature.

However, people slam Nintendo for that all the time. Yahtzee slams Nintendo for making another Zelda in the Darksiders review, for crying out loud. One of the biggest strikes against Twilight Princess is that it’s basically just Ocarina’s elements shuffled and run through an “edgy” filter. However, there is one key thing that I feel Zelda succeeds at that is lacking in Darksiders.

Every good Zelda game (and admittedly they’re not all good, and some are not as good as Darksiders) has a few twists on the old formulas and tools that make me say “Oh, that’s clever.” Darksiders has nothing of this nature. When obstacles or puzzles are introduced, the solution is immediately obvious and is simply a matter of going through the motions. The absolute worst example of this in the genre is the Temple of the Ocean King in Phantom Hourglass. While Darksiders is just dull in this regard, Phantom Hourglass is actively infuriating.

Unwavering predictability absolutely permeates Darksiders (at least as far as I got in it before losing interest entirely), and I was constantly irritated by the lack of any kind of misdirection or sleight of hand when it comes to the level or puzzle design. I actually only fully realized this while playing Divinity II of all things, after hitting a gate that had a lever next to it that did nothing. To open the gate you had to spot a series of platforms earlier on that would lead you to the true lever, high above the floor. As I pulled that lever, I thought, “Darksiders never even tried that hard to fool me with anything.” Zelda’s water temples, for example, are notorious for making you figure out exactly what you need to do through experimentation and visualization. Every puzzle I encountered in Darksiders lacks this aspect entirely, which is why I find it so dull and unrewarding.

Again, I don’t think it’s a bad game. I think it’s an entirely competent game with, as Yahtzee says, no soul and nothing of its own to offer. People who counter this complaint with “but Zelda’s the same thing every time” or something similar just miss the point of the complaint entirely, in my opinion. By way of analogy, I don’t care how great a Led Zeppelin cover band is, it’s not the same as seeing Led Zeppelin in concert. I get that that distinction isn’t as important to some people, but it is to me.

I’m rapidly reaching my limit, and this game is about 5 minutes from being shelved. Not because of your reasons though.

No, because it’s buggy as fuck. Somehow, all the problems were deferred until later in the game. I have had various puzzle bits fail due to bugs. I couldn’t beat the boss that required the train car, because the game wouldn’t let me hold on to it. Had to reload. I couldn’t get one of the sword pieces, because the anchor point wouldn’t work. I’ve had my boomerang refuse to lock on to important parts. In Black Throne, there were parts where my hookshot refused to work at all. And to put icing on the motherfucking cake, One of my armor parts is missing, so I can’t complete it. I’ve been over the whole game two full times in addition to the times I was in the areas to begin with.

One of the chests either wasn’t there, or the piece that was supposed to be given to me by the story wasn’t.

The camera, on top of everything, gets so infuriating that I’ve nearly thrown my controller. Some of the puzzles require timing that had me fighting the obtuse and poorly designed controls so much that I’ve nearly chucked the disc in the trash. And that’s beside the ridiculous combat difficulty ramp (which you warned me about).

And oh god what I wouldn’t give for a fucking run button.

I’ve never slammed Nintendo for make Zelda because I’ve never played Zelda.

Fuck, I always forget about the PSP one.

Those bugs you describe are pretty awful sounding. I have yet to run into anything that egregious, but now I’m kind of curious to keep going and see if the same stuff happens to me.

And oh god what I wouldn’t give for a fucking run button.

Amen, brother.

All discussion about the game aside, “I am a monster truck that WALKS LIKE A MAN” had me laughing for a good minute and a half, so I’d say this week was a success.

Nice critique of the massively overwrought Image comics visual style of the Darksiders characters creative director Joe Madureira brought to the game.

Some accomplished comics artist once explained how people, especially men, new to drawing often start to draw something and just keep on adding a lot of lines and details. They (consciously or not) try to compensate for their lack of drawing skill (composition, drafting, shadowing, anatomy) by covering everything with lots of pouches and straps and weapons and ammo and buttons and zippers and buckles and unspecified devices and spikes and squiggly lines.

This is exactly what Image comics style art looks like. The guys using it are so used to this style they never grew out of it. It’s a rookie mistake. A guy who can actually draw and design can show anything with two or three sinuous, flowing lines.

My giggling got me scared looks from my coworkers = SUCCESS!

Or they’re Rob Liefeld, in which case they never had any skill to begin with and never will.