What do you mean by a scare’s “legitimacy”? Perhaps I’m not understanding what you mean, but I don’t see how this is in dispute. I think we’re all legit startled by jump scares. No one is disputing that they’re legitimately scary, startling, or even effective!
There are ways to do this without startling the audience, wouldn’t you agree? It seems like quite the lack of imagination to imply a jump scare is necessary to bring the audience into a subjective experience. Again, I’m not sure why you’re introducing this new wrinkle about “violating omniscience” (isn’t that just another word for “subjective”?) and I’m especially confused at your reference to physics.
“Legitimate” as as opposed to “violating rules” or “cheap” or “unearned”, and “Jump scares violate the rules of audience omniscience” are your your words, so you tell me what they mean. None of this is necessary, but these are tools a movie can use like any others.
I’m not sure I understand what your problem with jump scares is. If you said they don’t work anymore because we all watched too many horror movies and can see them coming, that’s one thing, but if they’re scary and effective, why are they so bad? Where does the resentment come from, other than someone deciding startling the audience is bad for unspecified reasons?
I don’t know that I would call them bad. I don’t really dislike jump scares, personally. But I do distinguish between those that make sense, for lack of a better word, within the movie’s fiction. I’ve explained that in my earlier post.
To a point, utilizing sound hits and music bombs are a “cheap” way to enhance a jump scare, or any scare really. A good scare is one that takes a fraction of second to recognize, then you mentally make the connection to why it’s scary. The mirror scare that scares you without noise is much better, skill-wise, than one that blows out your ears at the same time.
That said, no need for acrimony in a harmless thread.
The only valid use of a jump scare I can think of is in The Cabin in the Woods, and it’s ironic. That’s its comedy genre talking anyway, not its horror genre. It only works because the movie knows we hate jump scares too.
I would say the polar opposite of a jump scare (even though this movie is kinda guilty of one earlier) comes at the end of Take Shelter, when we experience an extreme buildup of tension, which is released, instantly, in a serene way. It’s near or at the top of my short list of best earned moments in movies, and I think the contrast is relevant here.
The real question is whether there’s a way to genuinely earn a jump scare in a movie. I can’t think of one. I’m open to the idea of it, but I think it’s probably like looking for fancy wedding apparel in a Goodwill.
Or the Chekhov’s gun that is really well done, like the nail in A Quiet Place. With zero noise, you get anticipation, overarching consequences that are well established, body horror, empathic pain.
Mostly that I resent them. Secondarily that I feel they’re a cheap gimmick that should be beneath the kinds of gifted storytellers whose movies I enjoy. That’s all. If that doesn’t make sense, it’s totally okay to just sigh and say, “I don’t get you, Tom.” You wouldn’t be the first. :)
Yes, so perfect, Austin! I can’t believe I didn’t think of that, and I absolutely agree with what you’re saying about it being an element of the movie’s comedy! Cabin in the Woods is so good about poking slyly at horror movie tropes.
Sheesh, if one of us didn’t pick that for the jump scares 3x3, we need new podcast hosts.
Well, geez, is that the whole ballgame right there? I love being startled. Or maybe I love to hate being startled. Same difference.
Meanwhile, you don’t! End of debate. ;)
The jump scare I resented most in recent years was in A Quiet Place where there was a whole, big build-up of there’s something behind you but it’s just a hand on the shoulder from one of the other family members. That’s some bullshit right there. You’d think given the sound-monsters roaming about that the family would have a system in place for minimizing the chance of an accidental yelp. Hell, I have a system with my kids for when I’m gaming in the basement with headphones late at night! They know to walk into my line of sight rather than just tapping my shoulder from behind. Jesus. They still startle me but it’s a lot milder than physical contact.
It’s just neat to me the way the genres break down into different categories that instill different bodily responses. Comedy = laughter, Drama = tears, Horror = fear and the fight-or-flight response including increased heart rate and goosebumps and rapid breathing. We are story animals.
Good horror movies really do a number on us physically as we watch, more so than other genres. I mean, when I saw The Ring on opening night I started to have a panic attack right there in the movie theater when Samara came crawling out of that TV. I had to force myself to slow my breathing and think ‘it’s only a movie.’ But it seemed to me like she was crawling right off the movie screen. I thought I was at risk of fainting. It’s not hard to understand why a lot of folks just nope out on the whole genre.
Now I’m curious to hear what you might have disagreed with in that observation!
Whenever I’m watching horror-like movies with my wife and daughters, I find that I can see jump scares coming a long way off, so they don’t scare me like they should. They do scare the rest of the family though, so I guess that’s just me?
One exception to this, albeit a long time ago, was Arachnafobia (which popped back up in my mind due to the gif thread). Somehow, they did it just right, mainly by postponing the jump to the moment right after you expect it. Causing a tension build-up, followed by a moment of relaxation (“ok, no jump scare after all, I guess”) and then the actual jump scare! Worked perfectly for me, at the time. I wonder, if I were to rewatch it now, if I grew over that or if it still works…
Actually, do you really? My friends son used to think it was funny to creep around the house and startle people when he was about six or seven. I don’t think he understood that people didn’t like it. He thought it was funny. But maybe he was right and I’m just a wet blanket? Maybe some people actually like being startled. That honestly hadn’t occurred to me.
But I get that sense about some horror movies, that they’re like a child who hasn’t figured out how to get attention without being annoying. They think people like being startled. And maybe they do. Which is mystifying to me. Because even I can startle someone by just lunging at them and going “boo!” when they don’t expect it. It’s the easiest thing in the world, as my friends son discovered.
Ah, okay, I was reading too much into your porn comparison! You’re just talking about the physiological response, but for some reason, I was thinking you were making some larger observation about divorcing the response from its intended function or festishizing fear or something like that. But you basically just meant it really gets our hearts going or ties up our stomach in knots, which I agree with.
C’mon, Tom! Did I need to specify the context? It’s right there in your thread title! :D
Yes, I like being startled by horror movies because I have signed up for fear in all its different varieties including those sudden jolts. Same with horror games.
I don’t necessarily like being startled in real life, as indicated by my anecdote about late night gaming. Then again, it’s always good for a laugh when recounting the story after the fact so it’s not all bad. In some thread or other, I recently shared a pic of the gross, black snake I found in my basement playroom last year. F*@%ing YIKES! He made the house centipedes that regularly freak me out look like… child’s play!
P.S. Kids who think it’s funny to startle you are little punk-ass brat a-holes who totally suck and I hate them so it’s hard when one of them is your daughter.
She’s not too bad with it… like, she’ll walk up to you barefoot and realize you didn’t hear her coming so then she just quietly stands there waiting until you turn around. That’s a mild startle and a little bit funny and more easily forgivable than a loud boy’s BOO! But I still keep encouraging her to grow out of that phase.
I guess it never occurred to me there are people who actually like being startled. That’s so odd to me!
I kind of figured everyone accepted jump scares as a necessary evil, part of the genre that simply won’t go away, like the contrived third-act breakup in a romcom or the origin story in a superhero movie or the rookie fresh out of the academy in a buddy cop movie. They’ll always be there for filmmakers who can’t think of anything better to do.
I think there are good startles and there are lazy startles (bathroom mirror I’m looking at you). The Drag Me To Hell ending or the Hereditary lamp post would be good startles.
I’m not sure what this is, but I don’t think I remember it. The only jump scare I recall in Hereditary is near the end, when Alex Wolff sees a nekkid man in the house, and even that might not have been a jump scare. What’s the lamp post jump scare?
It might not fit your definition of a jump scare, but it’s when the daughter is having trouble breathing and opens the window in the car so she can get some fresh air, then kaboom.
How is that a jump scare by any definition? Also, I thought that was a telephone pole, but lamp post works, too. But I can’t puzzle out how that’s supposed to be a jump scare.
You guys do know what jump scare means, right? Because we already had a ton of confusion over people having their way with the term “musical cue”. :)
