These Are The Voyages-Star Trek TOS Remastered and Reconsidered


Yeah, the episode mentions specific dates, with the Wars happening during the 90s, and Khan ruling the eastern hemisphere between 1992 and 1996. I haven’t kept up to date with the various retcons and I too share some disdain for TNG, so I don’t know what the timeline is supposed to look like nowadays.

Oh, and they mention offhandedly during the episode that travel between planets took years until some breakthrough happened in 2018. So there’s another deadline we blew. Thanks Obama!


Look, the TOS timeline is the true original timeline and we losers live in some sad alternate future with twitter and orange haired buffoons running major countries. Any efforts to retcon this reality are just sad and pathetic.


We know what happened in 2018. Zefram Cochran invented the Warp Drive, and then later vanished. See Metamorphisis, season 2.


He had a valediction, boyo.


Heh, I recognized the James Ellroy quote, but I can’t figure out how it applies. Help me, Spock!


Dive will get it. ;)


I do indeed. Don’t start tryin’ do do the right thing, boyo - you haven’t the practice.



Ah, I forgot that bit of TNG nonsense, James Cromwell as Cochrane.


I wish I could forget it. Maybe we can get a hot director to make a film and retcon it away?


I love TNG, but god, I hate First Contact so much. Definitely the worst TNG movie, and that’s saying something since none of them are good.





Yeah, you’re forgetting a couple of TNG movies if you consider First Contact the worst.


You are a crazy person


I wipe my awe-inspiring old-school-Trek buttocks with all TNG nonsense, show, movie, etc. Buncha wanna-be scif-fi utopian-senile-Gene-Rodenberry crap. All of it.

I have a distinct recollection of getting all excited for the premier of TNG while in undergrad, getting together with a huge group in a common room to watch it and feeling after the show, “I waited years for THAT?” That kinda sums up my entire view of TNG. Feh on TNG. I crap upon it all from a great height.

TOS 4eva!


What are your feelings on … DS9?

While Picard is a favorite of mine, and I love everything Q, I can appreciate how TMG is flawed. But if you have the same level of hate for DS9, I’m afraid we can’t be friends.


Well, you didn’t ask me, but I feel like I’m more or less on the same page as @Sharpe, so what the heck, I’ll butt in. I’ve mellowed on my dislike of TNG over the years, been able to appreciate the high points while … disregarding the low points. But I’ll never have the love for it that I do for TOS. I just don’t see it happening.

DS9 though, I’m a lot closer. I liked the basic underlying drama there, of the outpost on the edge of known space and so much being unknown, plus being surrounded by, if not enemies, then at least untrustworthy allies. I liked a lot of the characters too, Sisko and Odo are pretty great. Kira and Bashir are really good. O’Brien, yeah, he’s got his moments. The rest, well I guess they had their place. But I don’t like any of the Ferengi for the same reason I don’t like Worf and the Klingons, they’re one-trait races and they bore me. Even the characters that have more complexity are basically reactions against their racial traits and expectations. I don’t give a damn about the rules of acquisition or profit motive, and episodes that focused on all that stuff just left me cold.


Pretty much what Dive said, with the exception of his Ferengi statements (we have had fisticuffs over this). DS9 also, never tried to retcon anything other than simple playful things like the Tribbles episode, which was a loving tribute, and didn’t alter anything. Same with Kang, Koloth, Kor, and bunch of other things I won’t even try to list here.

Basically, in addition to all its other issues and problems, and pertinent to our discussion, TNG kind of, in retrospect, tried to minimalise/dis/throw shade on TOS. Which really reflected it’s insecurity at being accepted as its own thing, IMO. DS9 never did that.


With the assistance of my friend Mr. Widget, formerly of these boards, I watched a carefully curated selection of DS9 episodes focusing on the Cardassians and the Dominion, including the Dominion War, and enjoyed it a great deal. I consider it fundamentally different and better than TNG.


That’s mostly my take on DS9. At times it was great TV. At other times it was boring as hell. Life is like a box of DS9, you never know what you’ll get.