This is what the 360 HD will do for you ( live marketplace )

–Dave

What’s even cooler is that a lot of these old classics have been reformatted for 720p HD. So its not like they are just bumping em through MAME, its not quite the full 360 experience but all the 360 features like live enabling and music etc are in full force during them. At the MS demo at Digital Life they rocked out with 80s hits while playing an updated form of Joust, which was just terrific.

Sam

Kadath- You can imagine my anticipation of HD Bespelled.

“Look at that fucking D! It’s like a trillion pixels! Droooool”

I just can’t see why this is so exciting. Are you really going to spend $5 to play Joust after spending over $500 on the machine and one new game? Is it exciting because these games are all people will be able to afford after buying an Xbox 360?

–Dave

I just can’t see why this is so exciting. Are you really going to spend $5 to play Joust after spending over $500 on the machine and one new game? Is it exciting because these games are all people will be able to afford after buying an Xbox 360?

–Dave[/quote]

Wait, since when was $400 + $50 “over $500”? Or do you just have some killer sales tax in your state/country?

Dave, why is that when Nintendo promises pretty much the same thing with Revolution you praise it as a genius move, but when Microsoft does more than promise but actually delivers a way to bring casual, smaller, retro or truly innovative games to their customers you downplay it and make silly quips about the price? Unless you’re prepared to argue that such a feature only has value if it delivers hallowed Nintendo classics, but I don’t think even you are willing to say that Joust or Robotron 2084 have no value.

At some point shouldn’t whatever intellectual honesty you have kick in and say that the Xbox Live Arcade is a great way for smaller developers to try and make money with innovative games? Last year’s winner of the Independent Games Festival, Wik, is available on Live, and it works great with the gamepad. Don’t you think its great that those developers now have an additional revenue stream?

It may not seem exciting to you, because Nintendo = good and Microsoft = evil is simply apodictic in your world. But for anyone else, Microsoft’s attempt to broaden the console experience by truly bringing in casual and independent games deserves to be praised.

Jim, it’s not exciting because it’s too fucking expensive for things I can buy RIGHT NOW in compilations that cost $20. If you could turn off your Nintendo/Dave Long hate for a second, you’d probably realize that.

I asked in the thread at GAF, “Will they cost 25 cents per play?” because for Joust, Gauntlet, etc., that’s what they’re worth. I can still play many of these games at the local arcade for that price (seriously, one of the best in the country), so why would I pay five bucks for ONE of them?

If Nintendo charges that much for some of their older games in this same way, I’ll be equally as disappointed and wonder what the point of it is on a console that costs hundreds of dollars.

Also, this isn’t exciting. It’s just something extra the system does and it’s a complete smokescreen for the fact that the launch lineup is pretty damn mediocre.

Finally, I don’t see these independents making any money here. The people who would pay a few bucks for their games aren’t console gamers and they’re certainly not the people that spend $400 on a console to play videogames. The markets simply do not coincide. It’s nice of Microsoft to throw them a bone, but this is a PR thing more than a viable revenue stream.

Hey, if they can get people to pay for it, then bully for them. Same goes for Nintendo. Nintendo put out those GBA carts of NES games for $20. I paid $10 for a few only because they’re portable and that price seemed right compared to the price of the original NES carts used. I never would’ve spent the $20 on them. At least they offer something this doesn’t though… portability.

–Dave

You’re not getting a second controller? Only one game? How many people do you think are buying the premium pack and a single game, specifically a Microsoft published game since everyone else’s games are $60? With tax, you’re near $500 no matter how you try to spin it.

–Dave

Because you might play it more than twenty times?

While it is true that there is little distinction between “Nintendo/Dave Long” entity considering that you act as a sort of unofficial PR spinmeister for NoA, it’s actually in my best interest to see Nintendo succeed. Since I work for a platform-agnostic publisher, I prefer to see three strong platform providers; and with the Gamecube essentially being moribund, I’m hoping that the Revolution will undercut both Sony and MS and make Nintendo more competitive again.

What they are worth is what the market will bear, not what you and the GAF forum may think.

You know as well as I do that the arcade industry is dead, and you know as well as I do that the trend in entertainment is towards at-home, on-demand service. Finally, you know as well as I do that Live Arcade is about subscribing to all-you-can-eat gameplay, not about putting in twenty five cents at a time. Do you really think that business model for Live Arcade is broken because the local arcade is still a viable alternative? Seriously, are you being intellectually honest here?

Well, then be prepared to be disappointed, because Nintendo is sitting on a gold mine of IP that they can monetize in lots of ways, some of which will undoubtedly involve subscription-based packages.

C’mon. The quality of the launch line-up is a red herring, and you know it. Try to stay on topic. You have complained frequently in the past about the dearth of imagination in today’s games, or the fact that games are getting too big for the garage-games entrepreneur. Well, Microsoft has done something about it with XDKs that can be downloaded for free and by taking on the distribution and billing infrastructure, bringing more opportunities to smaller developers. I think it’s great for the industry, you seem to think it is a “smokescreen.”

While I agree that casual gamers are not early adopters, I do not agree that early adopters don’t enjoy casual games. Furthermore, the price of the 360 will come down as all console prices do and the audience for the console will widen.

Why just bully for Microsoft and Nintendo? This is a win-win for our entire industry. It offers smaller developers a chance to find an audience without the overhead of distribution and billing, and it offers a chance for gamers to be exposed to a lot more interesting content, from the classic arcades right up to the winner of the IGF. I don’t see how you can be so dismissive on what is undoubtedly a positive step for this industry, unless that positive step is taken by Microsoft.

Wait… MS is making some subset of the X360 base available for development for free? Any pointers? I would think this would be fantastic not only for MS, but also for indies who just got a huge tunnel into a market heretofore completely off limits to them.

Back when Nintendo put out the NES “classics” on the GBA for $19.95 each, and the sane among us was saying “WTF?”, Dave was right there saying “Nintendo charges what the market will bear.”

Now, though, charging was the market might bear (since we have no idea what the actual cost will be for games on XBLA, or if the cost will adjust if it ends up too high or too low), it’s disappointing.

To sumamrize:

Nintendo overcharging for nostalgia = Ok
Anyone else overcharging for nostalgia = BAD!

I just can’t see why this is so exciting. Are you really going to spend $5 to play Joust after spending over $500 on the machine and one new game? Is it exciting because these games are all people will be able to afford after buying an Xbox 360?

Ir’s exciting for those folks who cant figure out MAME, where to download the ROMS, or whose moral compass says that its wrong to have 2+ DVDs full of ROMS for arcade games they dont own. Add in wireless controllers and HD updates and low cost downloads, and it sounds like a winner to me. Plus you can cherry pick the winners you want and not blow $30 on a compilation of games that suck, just like downloading songs you want from an album over itunes.

Done right, this is the itunes of MAME.

Sam

Plus, its the final nail in the coffin of the Phantom, and I’m sure its a big concern to those who launched Gametap.

Sam

I never mentioned MAME. I’m talking about legal compilations of these same games that are already available on multiple platforms. They’re charging $5 for one game on those compilations that often contain as many as twenty. That’s wrong.

Jim, I have not been one of those trumpeting the smaller developer competing thing. Looking at the market, I’m fine with it the way it is. I don’t see independent development as some super-duper way to get creativity flowing because frankly, it’s flowing just fine through companies like Nintendo and many others that have plenty of money. In fact, I’m one of the people who has said that Costikyan is a bullshitter and while I’m glad he put someone’s money where his mouth was, I don’t think he’s going to change anything.

In this case, just like the $20 GBA games, the market will decide what it will bear. I’m saying right now that MY MARKET won’t bear it. I’m not going to be sitting there downloading arcade games for $5 each every day, every week or even every month. I’d rather go pick up the used $5 Namco Museum discs at EB if I want to play Pac-Man, etc. It’s way more cost effective for me because I don’t need to shell out $400 for a console to do this.

I don’t believe that the trend is toward “on-demand” service because I think when people figure out that on-demand means, “You don’t own it”, then they’re going to become unhappy. People like to shop and for the most part they are not all the trusting of Internet purchasing and are even less happy when they get bills. Any form of on-demand becomes a bill people have to pay and I think it will be a disincentive toward purchasing rather than incentive.

So really, you guys are just so hung up on the messenger that you can’t hear the message, as usual. There is no evil in my words. I love videogames and play them on ALL systems, probably on more systems and in more genres than 80% or more of the people who frequent this board in fact. Hell, I bet I own more Xbox games than the people who try to ream me out regularly over what I like and dislike.

I think what really irks you guys is that I’m not always on your bandwagons. The Qt3 Groupthink is usually that Microsoft is great and their Xbox is suepr successful and awesome. Well, it’s pretty good, Live is great, but it’s not certainly not my favorite system and it’s really not that successful either. Gamecube isn’t either for that matter. I probably like the Nintendo DS or the Game Boy Advance more than both of those. Dreamcast was by far my favorite console. The PC is easily up there with all of them for me. I LOVE PC games.

And the launch lineup is not a red herring when folks are trumpeting this Live Arcade as a reason to own the Xbox 360. That makes it just as crucial to them in their purchasing decision as the launch games because they’re saying, “Buy Xbox 360 to play Joust!” I’m saying that’s pretty fucked up!

Also, why is it that all these folks on here are always saying how awesome the Xbox is, but no one is ever showing up on Live as playing their Xbox when I log on, which lately was frequently while I played Rainbox Six: Lockdown for a review? I mean, I saw no one. Xaroc and dailin kal are around a little right now playing NHL, but I’ve got a list of a lot of people from Qt3 in my friends list and no one’s ever playing Xbox games? If it’s so big and people love it so much, why don’t they use it?

–Dave

Well, to keep this all in perspective, that’s just a rumor. They haven’t announced what the actual pricing is going to be yet, just like Nintendo. While I think both this sort of download service is a good idea in general, obviously pricing will make or break it. It’s a bit early to be getting our panties all in a twist over it, though.

True. The “sources” say $5 to $10. I think on Xbox Live Arcade now, these games are $15. So I really can’t imagine they’ll lower them to like $2, though that’s more reasonable given the lack of any physical media and the fact these games are in compilations for less money. If they make them iTunes cheap, then yeah, it’s a nice plus. For the people making stuff specifically for Xbox Live Arcade, $10 seems awfully cheap. I don’t see how that’s going to be profitable for them. Microsoft has to get a rather large cut of that.

You’re still paying $50 a year to even get access to have the option to purchase them in the first place though. Consider that Turner’s GameTap is offering a huge amount of titles for the PC for $15 a month. Many of them are not even available in compilations like all the Genesis games and whatnot. I think I need to try that out and see how it all works.

Anyway my panties weren’t bunching. Just defending myself from the usual…

–Dave

It’s kind of like Microsoft announcing something that might be cool for a lot of people.

Oh and I think with a Live subscription you can also play online with rock solid voice chat and matchmaking and friend finding and probably download demos and stuff. But yeah, most people are paying the $50 for the Live Arcade games Dave.

If $50 is what it takes to get a system like Live working the way it does, after I look at what Sony and Nintendo have done for online for free I’ll glady give that $50 to MS entirely for the services offered on the first Xbox Live alone. If they decide now they also want to offer a bunch of other little games I may or may not ever even look at, how on Earth is that possibly a strike against Microsoft themselves, the Xbox 360, or even Live? Dave, didn’t you even like Xbox Live? I’m not trying to put words in your mouth, but I thought your reaction was pretty positive to gaming on Live. Why are you getting bent out of shape about this totally optional addition to it?

I’m reacting to the reaction. People saying this is a reason to buy the system. I’m saying that’s a silly reason to drop $500.

I’m paying for Live already and yeah, it’s nice. I’ve said that a bunch of times. I just renewed in fact.

That doesn’t change the fact it costs MORE money to play these games on top of the Live fee and the more is a lot per game IMO.

–Dave