Titans/McNair issues

He doesn’t block or pick up the blitz. He doesn’t run between the tackles. He isn’t a 30-carries-per-game guy. In pads, he’s no faster than a linebacker, as anyone who saw the Rose Bowl can verify. He looked great against some shitty PAC-10 and WAC defenses, but when USC moved the ball successfully on Texas, Leinart was the back. In short, he is a special teams role player and/or 3rd-down back.

Is that a guy you’d spend a 1st round pick on?

And that’s why a lot of Houstonians expect the Titans to draft VY – for no other reason than it gives Bud another way to stick it to the city of Houston. And given his history, that would be reason enough.

Sounds like you’re basing your assertions mostly because you watched a team that was exclusively a two-back offense and disparaging him for it

You say he isn’t a 30-carries-per-game guy evidently because he never did it (but you never quantify this, I’m just guessing). That’s rather hard to do in a dual-back system. Tiki never got that many when Dayne was playing regular.

Bush didn’t just look great against “shitty PAC-10 and WAC defenses” but against Notre Dame and Arkansas too. And was pretty good agaisnt Oklahoma two years ago.

Bush is not as fast as Texas’ linebackers but he has decent speed. Emmitt Smith didn’t have cheetah speed either. He must be a big loser.

I don’t belittle the fact that I don’t think Bush was the bee’s knees that everyone made him out to be this year, but at the very least I think you’re being way too harsh here. Not a 2nd round pick? Give me a break. Draft is all about potential. Bush as potential out the ass.

— Alan

While I mostly agree, I disagree with that last statement – when Favre of McNair have played injured, a lot of times their backups would have simply done better. Favre was disastrous with his hurt thumb.

Crack’s good every morning. Sorry, I got Adams mixed up with Houston’s owner. Sometimes I think Modell still owns the Browns, so there’s that…

I dunno, who would spend a first round pick on a QB that entered the draft early, had one good season, played in a gimmicky offense, has questionable mechanics and ability to read the field, and benefitted by running up the score at every opportunity?

You mean, he rarely was expected to. He either got handed the ball on a run play or was in motion and a decoy or potential target on a pass play. Few marquee RBs out of college blocked for their alma mater. It’s easily their glaring weakness, but it’s fairly universal among all RBs.

He doesn’t run between the tackles.

Again, he never had to. Getting around and turning the corner is far easier to do in college. If you’re faster than all the other guys on defense, why the Hell would you run straight into them? Also, I think you’re full of shit on this account. But not as much as:

He isn’t a 30-carries-per-game guy.

Completely subjective, groundless complaint. If he isn’t, then nobody else is, either.

In pads, he’s no faster than a linebacker, as anyone who saw the Rose Bowl can verify. He looked great against some shitty PAC-10 and WAC defenses, but when USC moved the ball successfully on Texas, Leinart was the back. In short, he is a special teams role player and/or 3rd-down back.

Uh, he ran all over Texas. And everybody else. He looked fantastic in workouts recently, also. He’s nifty, he has great hands which makes him a receiving threat, and his attitude is spot-on.

Is that a guy you’d spend a 1st round pick on?

Any day of the week. Dude, just admit you don’t like him because you’re a Texas fan, already. This is ridiculous.

If nothing else, the fact that the other back did better than he did against better competition should throw up a red flag.

Bush didn’t just look great against “shitty PAC-10 and WAC defenses” but against Notre Dame and Arkansas too.

Notre Dame: #75 of 117 in total defense
Arkansas: #34 of 117 in total defense (slightly better than Fresno St at 38, and Oregon, #1 in the Pac 10, at 44).

And was pretty good agaisnt Oklahoma two years ago.

You mean the game where he was held to 75 yards rushing?

Bush is not as fast as Texas’ linebackers but he has decent speed. Emmitt Smith didn’t have cheetah speed either. He must be a big loser.

If Bush had anything to recommend him aside from his open-field speed, your comparison would be worth anything. Emmitt could block and had an unmatched ability to find the seam and follow his blocks.

I don’t belittle the fact that I don’t think Bush was the bee’s knees that everyone made him out to be this year, but at the very least I think you’re being way too harsh here. Not a 2nd round pick? Give me a break. Draft is all about potential. Bush as potential out the ass.

— Alan

Running backs are the mayflies of football; their careers are usually very short. An RB is drafted with the expectation that he’ll be able to contribute immediately (if not sooner). Bush doesn’t have time to learn a lot of new things.

Besides which it wasn’t Bush’s job to power up through the middle or go off-tackle. Or it could be that Texas’ linebacker corps was very good, very quick, and NFL quality?

75 rushing on 12 carries. That’s a pretty decent average considering, don’t you think?

Bush’s hype isn’t just speed. Didn’t you even see Bush? He has tremendous open field capability for starters.

— Alan

Yes, I’m setting a record for consecutive posts.

But he did get carries in college.

Emmitt Smith didn’t have cheetah speed either. He must be a big loser.

Oh, see, you committed Hook’s Draft Fallacy #1 – “Running backs don’t need speed because Emmitt Smith was slow”. That’s right up there with #2, “Wide receivers don’t need speed, because Jerry Rice was slow”. Exceptions don’t prove the rule, and as a rule if you’re being touted for your speed then you’d better be fast. Bush isn’t nearly as fast as everyone thinks, and this reminds me a lot of Peter Warrick a few years ago – dazzling against college opponents that will never be drafted, but very average against NFL type players.

Bush is worth a late first rounder, but I’d never draft him at the top. I wouldn’t draft Young that high either (since I’m biased against QBs with only a single good year in college – hello Akili Smith). If I had a top pick, it would be Ferguson, Williams, or Leinart.

Why would being a Texas fan make me not like him? It doesn’t make me not like Matt Leinart or Lendale White.

And if you can actually back up any of the rest of your arguments with some facts (I mean, seriously… college backs aren’t expected to pick up the blitz? Where do you get this?), I’ll be interested in hearing them.

One other thing, as I try to monopolize this threat. For those that say Bush didn’t “need” to do things like run between the tackles or block, that’s precisely the kind of red flag I’d have as a scout. In my Book of Hook’s Scouting, you spend a top 15 pick on surefire production, not unlimited potential. You blow 2nd+ rounders on unlimited potential. VY is a 2nd-3rd round pick, and Bush is a mid-to-late first.

This is more conventional wisdom than anything else. I’ve seen quite a few pro RBs say that blitz pickup is one of the hardest things to learn because it’s mentally complicated in a lot of situations and in college you basically were asked to run the ball, receive, or perform play action. College RBs don’t stay in to block that much – the OC would rather have a proper TE or another receiver out there.

Bush ran a 4.33 40 at his proday and he was disappointed by it. That’s blazing fast. But his real strength is that he can reach that speed almost instantly. He has incredible (ungodly) change of direction ability. He’s a lot stronger than he looks too. His stiff arm is good and he ran over people in college (yeah, college, but he still did it, and they were LBs and Safeties. Bush can also be used as a legitimate WR, so he opens up your offense in all sorts of ways. I think he CAN run between the tackles. I’m not sure where people are getting that he couldn’t. He could also add some weight and still be fast…probably up to about 215, which is decent sized. He’ll be a star if he avoids injury, and I don’t think he is particularly fragile or at risk either.

This might be my Texas bias coming through again, then, because Mack won’t let a running back take the field until he shows he can block a blitzing linebacker.

I don’t blame anyone for thinking VY isn’t a top 5 draft pick. I happen to believe he’ll prove to be a HoF player, but for all of the reasons you’ve outlined here (and some others you haven’t), my belief doesn’t outshine obvious well-founded reason, no matter how well-founded it is. :)

I can see Bush being a late first rounder by your measure because he can obviously contribute immediately on special teams. I just don’t think a PR/KR specialist is worth a 1st round pick, even if he can contribute immediately.

Then why do you think VY is top 5? He’s far less likely to be able to contribute immediately than Bush. Either way, you sure changed your tune from “3rd round tops” quickly enough.

Okay, well, looking at this draft, who do you take ahead of Bush? I mean, it’s not that I disagree with you (I’d take Leinart first), but you got to come up 10-20 guys to pick ahead of Bush to support this. Okay, Bush is a mid-first-rounder in a draft vacuum, let’s say. But since that’s not the case in the real world, it’s time to start naming names.

They weren’t; that’s the thing. Aaron Harris will be lucky to make a practice squad. Killebrew’s a loose cannon who’s out of position as often as he makes good plays, and is good for a couple of 15-yarders per game. The other starter is 5’9" in heels, and Kelson – not even a starter despite being the prototypical Chizik LB – is more of a 'tweener, too small to be an NFL LB, too big to be a safety. We get all of these guys back but Harris, and they’ll be lucky to keep their jobs behind a couple of Freshmen.

Despite that, Bush had a very pedestrian running day against Texas, and a fumble of legendary ineptitude.

I think VY’s a top 5 pick because I’m not using BTG’s system. In BTG’s system, VY’s a 2nd rounder and Bush is a late 1st rounder. In my system, Bush isn’t in the first round and VY’s a first-second rounder.

But, in the case of VY, I happen to know a lot more about him than I do any of the others. You know the old investor’s adage, “Invest in what you know?” VY is a once-in-a-generation player. The only person I can really compare him to is Michael Jordan: Not just a ridiculous talent, but a work ethic and competitive drive to take that talent to higher and higher levels, and the leadership ability to make people around him play better.

So before you say, “Yeah, but you could say that about this person and that person and this person over here,” let me make this perfectly clear: I’ve never seen anyone like him, and I despair because I know I never will again.

So although I don’t blame teams for not drafting him, I believe that he will make whoever does draft him look like a genius.

Do you know the old adage “Never trust the opinion of a homer?”