Tooth and Tail - RTS, Monaco devs, formerly Armada


#11

Can you skirmish against the ai, or is story mode the only single player option?


#12

Skirmish is available.


#13

Yeah, I see it now. You have to select your commander in multiplayer before the option to add bot shows up.


#14

I take this as a strong recommendation, since Tom loves Sacrifice and I love the idea of a game like Sacrifice that makes a lick of fucking sense.


#15

I went in expecting Armello meets CnC, instead I found a very hero-centered RTS like in Sacrifice or Brutal Legend using the animals as allegory for early 20th C. Eastern European revolutionary movements. Less furry fun and more burn your oppressors’ farms.


#16

Man, either

or

would be awesome.

Something about the previews didn’t click for me but this thread is inclining me to acquiesce in the possibility of changing my mind.


#17

It’s kind of… not sure yet. You pick 5 unit a out of I think a list of 20? You have to swarm your opponents because there’s only one leader and one “right click” action on the map, so no micro of units? There’s no difference between the factions? The yellow robe wearing rats looks suspiciously, er… Jewish to me? A bit uncomfortable with that. I like how baked into the game is the cynicism of these “revolutions”. Even in the tiny bits of diolog we get in the campaign (basically just text boxes) we learn the Longcoat leader is a bare hypocrite. It’s all so Eastern European.

I mean I sorta like the aesthetic and the funky narrative context. It’s pretty clearly not all that deep as a strategy game - or maybe better said has a very clear and hard ceiling as to what you’re going to get out of it. It’s a “eat or be eaten” world of carnivores and pigs-peasants with numbers for names and zero-sum economics, where you’re literally holding the fork or being served on a fork, and making the characters animals makes this allegorical weirdness possible. That’s I guess my favorite thing about the game.


#18

Close! You pick six units from among four tiers. Tier 1, 2, 3, and defenses. Five units in each tier. Pick any six. Theoretically, you could pick all five defenses and try to turtle. And, yeah, it’s swarming of a sort, but a lot of it is positioning, territory, attrition, countering units, scouting, regrouping, and – if you’re really hardcore – managing individual units types. Left click for “all attack here”, right click for “selected unit type attacks here”, and hold down the button to command units to follow you (i.e. retreat).

Also, the economy is super finicky, which is a substantial part of the gameplay. In a way, it’s like Total Annihilation in that you queue up stuff and have to manage the flow, but with very limited resources. If you don’t know what you’re doing, your army will starve to death.

I love it to pieces, but it’s a very peculiar beast. Which is a compliment!

-Tom


#19

-Tom


#20

Yes, you’re right! Misremembered the exact details.

My worry is how “hard” a counter these units actually are. With such a large variety of units to pick from and so few to carry into a skirmish/multi game I wonder how much of winning will just be the luck of the draw? You picked birds and I have no counter to birds, so I lose. GG! (but not really). It seems like a bit of a hill to climb - players need to understand what all of the 20 units do and what counters them. This seems a higher bar to clear than most RTS games - even Total War games with their 200 unique units pretty much breakdown into spear/sword/ranged/cav.


#21

I don’t think there are any hard counters. Anything can attack anything else! Except the bobwire, I suppose. Bobwire only attacks things that walk into it.

But you’ve definitely got a legitimate concern. If it’s any consolation, the devs have been running competitions among their community as far back as, gosh, a year ago? It seems like that long. When they first announced it, they were putting up videos of tournaments. I don’t think it’s e-sports caliber or anything, but they’ve definitely been banging on the balance for a while. And you can see everything in the replay mode to see how things measure up.

Also, I think we’re burying the lede. The unique selling point is that it’s a competitive RTS that plays in five minutes. Seriously. Five minutes. Maybe eight minutes if it turns into a long drawn-out slog to see who starves first.

-Tom


#22

I had to search for the meaning of “lede.” :O

The idea of picking just 6 units out of 20 sounds pretty cool to me, might imply a great deal of second guessing and mind games :).


#23

So it features Jewish looking rats?

…great.

Let me tell you, as a Jewish person, this is just what we needed.

Edit: I went looking for analogous Christian headgear, and pretty much just found the Pope, which does not at all fit the Eastern European motif, or, uhh, the Syriac Church? Which is also pretty far away. The various Russian and Greek Orthodox churches wear hats, but they do not look like a skullcap, being floofier and more mushroom like. The easiest assumption to make, given the Eastern European background, is that they are Jews. Swell.


#24

I thought the jews were mice and the nazis cats…


#25

Well there is a pic above, the rat in yellow.

To be fair here this is subtle stuff - I doubt the average gamer would notice - and there doesn’t appear to be direct association. Just because it “felt” Eastern European to me I noticed this.


#26

Respectfully, it does not seem subtle to me.


#27

Oh I wasn’t sure if you had seen the pic above or not. At least all the teams are rats! But yea it struck me almost as soon I saw the theme of the game and yellow team’s fluff art. I think they’re called the Civilized faction?


#28

I added the photo to show the comparison between the image and his kippah and talit- skullcap and robe covering (like a scarf draped over your shoulders) and the yellow rat. While not identical, it is far too close for my comfort.

edit- I should add that there is a history of portraying jews as rats by anti-semites, as well as accusing them of cannibalism.


#29

A corollary to my post above. I was making a reference to Art Spiegelman’s Maus. Not contributing anything truly meaningful to what is actually a meaningful conversation. Apologies to any offended.


#30

No worries, man. No offense here, and I got what you were referencing :)