Kickstarter does not have anything to do with stretch goals or addons. They are not part of how Kickstarter functions. They are an ad-hoc and entirely free-form user hack whose use is functionally up to the project creators. So yes, stretch goals can be discarded at will. I’m not saying doing so is consequence-free, but it’s not binding.
Yes they are. Look at some of biggest campaigns that didn’t already start with a large following. The stretch goals are key to marketing. Have you read any articles on successful and less successful campaigns, both analysis off and basically diaries kept by the campaigners themselves? Stretch goals are often mentioned, and for a reason. Stop thinking of Kickstarter as a storefront and start thinking of it as a whole. As a whole, stretch goals are key to many of the campaigns that received well over their stated funding levels.
As others have said over and over again, we’re not talking about liability and contracts.
Yes, like I say, they are an ad-hoc user hack. They are not part of the actual platform.
You didn’t answer my question. Do you have a list of hugely successful campaigns without stretch goals? I’ll even narrow it down a bit more, hugely successful video game campaigns without stretch goals.
Stretch goals are as much a part of KS as EA is a part of Steam, as Third party sellers are part of Amazon, and as original content is part of Netflix… they weren’t part of the original platform, they were added on later, and they’re not required necessarily for these businesses to function, but for a variety of reason, they’ve become prominent and in many important to growing and exciting the user base… calling that a “user hack” is silly for a company that actually relies on users to exist.
No, they aren’t. Early access, third-party sellers and original content are all integrated parts of those platforms, fully part and parcel of the provided service and in the case of Netflix original content, fully created and curated by that business. Kickstarter does not support stretch goals and last I heard wasn’t terribly sanguine about the wisdom of using them. They’re not against TOS, that’s about as far as it goes.
Well I can see you won’t answer my questions. Their Help Center actually talks about Stretch Goals and provides guidance on them. They might not put it in their TOS, but they support them about as much as Valve supports EA… user discretion.
Except that Valve actually built early access into their client.
And from that help center section: “Stretch goals are not part of the official Kickstarter platform.”
Do people use them commonly? Of course. That’s not what I am arguing.
Anyway. I think I’ve repeated myself more than a little at this point so I’ll try to shut up. Still quite excited for Torment and I think the latest backer update addresses the issue pretty well.
For me, the changes they’ve made since the completion of the crowd funding campaign seem fairly minor. Nothing that’s made me upset or feel they broke any promises explicit or implied.
Well except cutting the Italian translation, that’s a real shame. But they’re giving refunds for that, which seems the least they could do.
I’m much more interested in if they’ve made a good game that fulfills what I want out of a spiritual successor for Planescape: Torment in 2017. For that I’ll guess I’ll have to wait and see.
You don’t to have lack enthusiasm, but stretch goals are not casual comments made in an interview. Kickstarter didn’t give a shit about their fraud problem either, and they changed their TOS after heavy pushback from the community about it. After enough stretch goals are dismissed casually by their campaigners, I suspect they’re going to respond to that too. Kickstarter is still in their infancy, and they acknowledge stretch goals exist enough to give guidance on more than than the first sentence you quoted as you well know.
I assume Italian is not your primary language either.
If InXile don’t fulfill their stretch goals it is fine. There is no contract. Fool me once. But if the same people don’t buy into InXile’s next project because they are leery of not getting the product they want/were promised, this too is fine. This is not a decision they should feel guilty about. They should not feel guilty about not spending money on something they don’t want. And they should not be made to feel guilty by InXile and the apologists in this thread.
I can’t speak for the other ‘apologists’ in this thread, but I’m certainly not trying to make anyone, even the happy meal guy, feel guilty.
I agree. Nor should anyone feel a need to join in any hyperbolic fake outrage over minor changes to stretch goals in a long development cycle. As I mentioned before no one will care one iota if the game is good.
Who was outraged in this thread, exactly? Were you talking about rpgcodex?
We don’t have a complete and accurate list of what has been changed. Different people have said different things.
This is information that InXile should be providing, instead of remaining silent. Or just slipping a casual remark on Facebook.
They went to Fig with a new crowd funding campaign for Wasteland 3 (which has its own stretch goals) knowing that they wouldn’t be delivering Torment completely, and not having disclosed it.
Source?
What do you mean, “source”? Have you forgotten the events of the last few days? There was like a month between the Wasteland 3 campaign and Torment going gold. You think all these cuts from Torment happened recently?
Hm. I see.
Not one of the more shocking Kickstarter scandals, I’m afraid. Looking forward to the game, though!
Sup Scott, fan of your channel on Youtube! I think as a backer the biggest pain for me was that I based my final decision to back this on the pet and the codex. Primarily with the codex being an in-game journal that I could rely upon to check information that I had forgotten. With this being so dialogue heavy such a tool would be invaluable. I have been pretty sore about these things being removed but having said that the game is without a doubt the most unique of its kind. I will definitely play it upon release and I sincerely hope it succeeds.