True Detective - HBO (2014)

Really liked your interpretation!

I don’t think their deaths would have served the story as well; it would cut their arcs short without a chance for anything approaching a satisfying denouement. The threat of death absolutely had to be believable in that moment, however, and I think they accomplished that superbly.

I see how Rust’s survival is a good way to take his arc, but what is Marty’s arc, as you see it? And how does his surviving improve it?

Wife and I spent the last few days watching all 8 episodes. Amazing acting, amazing atmosphere, lots of style. We both disliked the storyline and the story itself was pretty poor.

Oh look an inbred serial killer with a half sister in a house with no mobile phone signal, never mind lets go in any ways, oh look we both get attacked but manage to survive and we got him. Oh look a weird partner, oh look a policeman sleeping around and having a failed marriage, oh look how many more cliches can we have in this series.

Really am very very disappointed, a massive fan of this sort of stuff, yet take out the location shooting, the atmosphere and really left with very little. it feels like people are fans because it’s slightly off point and different to the usual fare you get on US TV.

Loved the intro and the song though, acting was superb, shame about the rest

Wife said 4 episodes would have been better, fare too much stuff on relationship etc all for nowt. Episode 4 was a disaster, we almost quit then but stuck through it, but it was just as we feared a by the numbers weirdo serial killer who no one believes in except one guy.

His final scene with Maggy (in the hospital) and his acknowledgement of Rust as a friend were the end of his arc. He tells you as much in an earlier episode: we don’t recognize the best parts of our lives until they’re over. His were over and his story ended with that acceptance.

I’d love to know what other shows have a character like Rust Cohle. He seemed unique in the history of TV and as far from any cliche as I can think of.

a by the numbers weirdo serial killer who no one believes in except one guy.

To be fair, it wasn’t a lack of belief as much as it was the fact that everyone just thought the case was over. Had Cohle and Hart not murdered those guys (and that’s what it was, an execution), they might have found out about the Spaghetti Monster in 1995. It was their catastrophic failure, in this respect, that led to everyone thinking the case was wrapped up.

Marty getting a bowling partner doesn’t do much for me. Him realizing he botched his middle age is a little more interesting. I would have rather Marty died and then seen his sparsely attended funeral, with Maggie and the girls notably absent.

Also, Rust Cohle is very similar to Will Graham, as played by Hugh Dancy. Visions & purple monologues in cars are two points of overlap.

Having one strange character in whatever way does not make something special. Everything else about the story is rehashed and generic. I appreciate the fact the acting was amazing, the set up and location filming so well done, the atmosphere amazing . I said to my wife about halfway through this is just a well filmed generic serial killer story and that’s how it turned out.

I agree Cohle was an amazing character but half the episodes and the so called gritty stuff was filler. We spent ages while Marty shagged 2 different birds and ruined his marriage, we had Marty hitting his daughter that seemed to have zero impact or reasoning. We spent a whole episode while Cohle did drugs and went undercover. I me an really episode 4 was like a linking episode to the so called killer for an hour that became a pointless shoot out.

Way too much style over substance for me.

I believe the entirety of the experience changed him for good; not the affected change seen earlier, where he slipped right back into his old habits and his justifications for them, but actual character growth and fundamental change.
I keep coming back to him breaking down in the hospital bed surrounded by his family where he actually showed vulnerability and appeared to reach out to them. Despite the damage he did to these relationships, they still care about him, and he’s ready to fully reciprocate that.

This isn’t necessarily arc related, but having Rust open up to Marty and express his revelations at the end as well is strong, since we’ve been following this pair throughout the story. I think there are ‘redemption’ theme parallels between the characters as well, though Rust is the focus.

I took the show not to be so much a murder mystery as a character study of two detectives as they try to solve the kind of case that only comes around once in a lifetime. So Marty’s infidelities and the denouement of his marriage are kind of the point; they show his character flaws and give him an opportunity at introspection as he grows older. And the breakup of the marriage mirrors the breakup of the detectives’ partnership, which is another marriage of sorts.

Episode 4 is where we really get to see Rust’s style of problem-solving, and it is a very active one. Undercover work, kidnapping, interrogation, B&Es. During the breakup of their partnership, Rust harangues Marty with “Without me, you’re nothing” before stomping off, but the opposite is true as well. Rust is basically spinning his wheels until he shows Marty his storage locker and brings him back in. He’s got data, and a working theory, but he can’t fit it all together because he’s missing too much of the picture. Marty, on the other hand, is very good at finding things in the available historical records and working through their linkages to rebuild that picture. Like a marriage, both people bring different strengths to the partnership, and the whole is stronger than the sum of individual parts.

Instead of a movie podcast next week, Tom and the gang are doing one on True Detective!

And that’s exactly what the show is. Pizzolatto laid his cards out very early in interviews about the show - he told us there would be no supernatural elements, that there would be no out-of-left-field revelations at the last minute, and he also said that he had no interest in serial killers. The case is there to provide focus and structure to the story that’s really about the lives of Hart and Cohle. I can understand being disappointed if that’s not what someone thought they signed up for, but that’s on the viewer.

As for next week’s podcast - sweet.

To add to blame the viewer for something that was not as it was advertised and if you don’t watching the interviews etc how would you know, it’s easy when you have watched all the literature that goes with it but for many it’s a media blackout

Your case listed above is was spot on and something we wouldn’t have been interested in really and I note I have seen no interviews, previews or clips in fact I had to do a blackout as we are always behind in the UK and you never know when you are getting spoilers, even my dad accidentally gave away a point that was too relevant to the show.

As a character study it was very good however from that perspective it wouldn’t be something I would spend 8 hours watching.

Also I see no reason why we had to have usual cliched storyline about a killer with the same issues I listed earlier, you’ve done the first part and created the atmosphere, the characters, the location and music and it’s like the storyline is an after thought of everything we have had in the past, how about a decent and original storyline without the cliches.

Reemul, I’m not calling you to task for your opinion. You didn’t care for it, that’s cool. My point is that the creators set out to make a story about detectives that is not necessarily about the case. I’m pointing out the external info just as backing information for that assertion. The reason I am doing so is because of what you said again right there, talking about the “storyline.” The story is Hart and Cohle’s life. The case, and everything associated with it, is something that happens in their lives. You talk about Hart’s dalliances and Cohle’s undercover work as though they’re side stories, but that’s only true if you look at the case as the story. Again, as I mentioned, the creators do not consider that to be the case. That you do is, naturally enough, just going to cause frustration.

I had seen the first four episodes or so before I really started following all the stuff happening online, on both sides of the coin: I wasn’t reading Pizzolatto’s interviews at that point, so I didn’t have him setting my expectations, and I agree that shouldn’t be a requirement for enjoying a show. But I also wasn’t reading reddit conspiracy theories, background on The King in Yellow, and poring over captures of children’s drawings. I had a lot of fun doing that, but getting caught up in the online clue-hunting and theorizing ultimately gave undue weight to those elements, and that’s not the show’s fault.

It’s not that anyone’s blaming a viewer for wanting something other than what they got. I totally get how someone could suspect early on that the show might take a supernatural twist, to address one example, but I don’t think the show ever cheated or betrayed anyone for not going in that direction (or any of the other disappointments). There were times that felt like a possibility, but I never felt like the show was doing a bait and switch. I never thought the show sold itself as anything it didn’t deliver on.

Well we weren’t looking for the supernatural, we were hoping to watch a couple of detectives with issues attempt to catch a killer (not necessarily a serial killer), instead we got an in depth look at the lives of 2 cops bolted on with a generic by the numbers killer caught in a by the book way.

For us it was disappointing and yet I see very little in the way of criticism for any of the show and I disagree with it.

I agree totally with all the comments on acting, atmosphere, shooting of the show, music etc etc however for me I wanted more I wanted a storyline to match the rest of the show and I feel we didn’t get it which was a big let down, yet most people seem to think the fact the other parts were so good we should give a pass to that part of it and I don’t

Should be a fun podcast!

I’ll be interested as to whether the narrative structure of TV shows (which Tom hates) is enough to overcome the fact that the show really did have an ending spot in the final episode.

But that is the point, I didn’t want to watch a show on Hart and Cohle’s life but by the end of episode 4 it was clear it wasn’t how it seemed and it was like well we made it this far just keep going it may get better or change. However with just seeing it advertised on the TV with the shows clips it was certainly portrayed as a serial killer who needs stopping with some conspiracy stuff not the life and times of Cohle and Hart, which while I appreciated was well done, wasn’t how it seemed and in all honesty while good I certainly don’t want 8 hours of it.

I hate to break it to you, but the best movies and fiction in this genre are NEVER about the case and always about the people. That’s film noir. That’s how it works.

No one can follow the plot to The Big Sleep. If you pay too much attention to Chinatown’s “case”, you’ll get lost and dizzy. The Third Man zips right past what might be plot holes because it’s not all that interested in the mystery of Harry Lime as much as it is interested in the idea of a mystery of Harry Lime.

Yeah. Sorry for bringing, you know, characters into a character drama.

— Alan

Reemul, it sounds like you may have been wanting a procedural. For one of those, may I suggest all of American TV, 1985-present.

This made me laugh :)