3130

That isn’t clear at all. The cautionary comparisons to the Clinton impeachment don’t hold up. There isn’t any real reason to believe that exposing the genuine crimes of an unpopular sitting President will help him get re-elected or harm the chances of the exposing party.

3131

That’s fine, someone’s going to launch rockets. What is not fine is promoting a stupid rich people car tunnel as better than trains in any way.

3132

Maybe not, but that’t the tyranny of low electorate expectations that i have.

Trump has delivered to Conservatives what they wanted. They don’t care about his personality at all or the waste or erosion of our international standing, they literally just “grin and bear it” (to quote one Republican that hung himself with that joke back in the nobler days of the Republic). He also hasn’t gotten us into a war yet, which is a first for a Republican president since… Eisenhower? (Reagan kind of counts with Granada). And spending money on credit literally doesn’t matter to them at all - effectively Republicans have now discovered they can basically run the country on debt and look like heroes. It’s also a harsh lesson in realpolitik that this “infinite money” well gives Conservatives the ability to just prop up the economy on debt basically forever and leaves Liberals to pick up the pieces and be the responsible parents that will cause economic contractions.

3133

Yes, I know, but there aren’t enough of them to re-elect him. The people who love him will continue to love him. Most of the people who hate him but support him will continue to do so. An impeachment proceeding in the House will not improve his numbers beyond that base.

3134

Hm

3135

I probably missed something, but why was Mueller suddenly delivering a statement today anyway? Was this expected? Wasn’t the House supposed to have him come and answer some questions for them (and hopefully clarify things)? Is that still going to happen, or has he been forbidden from appearing by his new boss? I can’t keep up with all of this administration’s shenanigans, so I feel like it’s likely that I’ve missed something important.

3136

I think he’s officially done at the DoJ now, office closed, etc.

3137

Ya. This was his exit interview. He handed in his card, laptop, etc. He also said pretty much if you call on me to testify, I am just going to quote from the report I wrote.

3138

Yeah, he’ll still likely be showing up in the future. This was just his “goodbye” to public office.

3139

President Shitty Diaper won’t like this.

3140

Okay, thanks for the clarifications, that’s helpful.

3141

FWIW Trump did NOT say execute.

Treason doesn’t carry mandatory minimums.

3142

Trump has no real reason to go after Mueller now, his work is done, and Trump didn’t get hurt.

3143
3144

I keep going back and forth on impeachment. It’s a terrible option and a loser no matter how you cut it.

But looking at the Brexit party result just in… Looking at Trump’s unshakable core base… Looking at what each special interest (be it taxes, judges, race, or environmental regulations) has obtained under Trump and what it matters to said group over ANYTHING else… Looking at the political discourse in our nation… Looking at Mitch’s smug “we’d fill it”… Looking at Fox and the like… Looking at the value of incumbency… Looking at the vulnerability to foreign actors and lack of will to address it… These things all mean a sad reality that I am starting to realize. Trump is very realistically getting re-elected.

There seems only one path. Educate the American public on how politically suicidal it is to impeach. Tell them that it very likely is handing Trump another four years. Tell them it is impossible to get 50 votes let alone 67. Tell them that even if a miraculous 67 could be found, it still raises Pence to office which horrifies a whole demographic of the Democratic Party. Make sure everyone knows it is a fool’s errand. And be on point when you do it (unlike Schumer stumbling over “collusion, pardon me, not collusion” when trying to make technical points about Mueller’s statement). [edit: and do these things on Fox-- pierce bubbles]

Show how self defeating impeachment is for the Democratic Party… and then do it anyway. That way, if democracy or the republic is still standing in 6 years, and nobody has anything more to gain from siding with Trump when the revisionist GOP history starts, one side can still be seen as respecting our government and for which it stands. The DNC doesn’t want to be standing in the crater being labeled the same “politicians” as everyone else.

I do think there is courage to be found in congress in this moment. I also think that such courage is unlikely to come from a political equation based on intent for running for office. Or keeping office.

3145

And of course, here’s what the Federalist heard today:

https://thefederalist.com/2019/05/29/mueller-just-proved-his-entire-operation-was-a-political-hit-job-that-trampled-the-rule-of-law/

If there were any doubts about Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s political intentions, his unprecedented press conference on Wednesday should put them all to rest. As he made abundantly clear during his doddering reading of a prepared statement that repeatedly contradicted itself, Mueller had no interest in the equal application of the rule of law. He gave the game, and his nakedly political intentions, away repeatedly throughout his statement…

…There’s no longer any doubt about who Robert Mueller is or why he conducted himself the way he did. As abominable as his press conference was, we should in many ways be thankful that Mueller so willingly displayed for all to see his disdain for basic rules of prosecutorial conduct, his total lack of self-awareness, and his naked desire to stick it to Trump.

3146

Musk spent his money to launch a rocket towards Mars. Is that unwise? I don’t know. It really depends on how you feel about colonizing other planets.

But if sending a rocket towards Mars is wise, then the rocket needs a simulated payload of a certain weight. Whether the payload is a car or the equivalent weight in bricks is equally wise.

3147

I view Mueller’s statement today as a flat declaration to Congress of “Do your job. I am not going to do your job for you, and I won’t help you do your job. Do it your own damn self.”

I believe Mueller believes his job was to conduct the narrowly constrained investigation he did, and to issue the narrowly constrained findings he did. I disagree with Mueller about this but his view is clearly within the range of valid interpretation of his role (at the very small “c” conservative end of that range). I view Mueller’s role as much more broad with more “prosecutorial discretion” but hey I’m just a punk-ass game player.

But here’s the thing: within the very narrow constrains Mueller imposed on himself by his narrow reading of the law and Constitution, he still did enough of a job to shift the burden of the next phase of work onto Congress. He found the legal and factual elements of obstruction of justice and that qualifies as impeachable offenses (Trump’s use of official power to obstruct justice and hinder investigation that hurts you personally or politically is pretty much text book “abuse of power” in the common law centuries of history of “high crimes and misdemeanors”). Mueller did his job, in a narrow legalistic way. He did not do the “public relations” or “political presentation” part of the job which is part of the process in our information dense society, but he clearly views that as Congress’s job.

And even though I think Mueller was way too narrow, he did in fact do enough that Congress’s job is now plain. They need to quit hoping that someone else will do the heavy lifting of presenting a strong case against Trump for them and do it their damn selves.

The way forward is clear: open impeachment hearings and continue issuing subpoenas for Trump’s financial info and for necessary testimony from McGahn, etc. Use the impeachment hearings as well as the additional evidence that will inevitably be produced to make a strong case for just how much of Trump abuses power and is unfit for office. If the hearings need to drag on due to resistance to subpoenas, etc., then they have to drag on, all the while pressure being maintained. Getting into a showdown with Mueller to try to force Mueller to say the magic words is a waste of time. Sitting back is cowardice and failure to fulfill the Constitutional duties of Congress. Pretending to “investigate” while not actually grasping the nettle and saying Forbidden Word of Impeachment is both cowardly and futile at this point.

Congress needs to open true impeachment hearings, to push their legal and constitutional investigation and discovery process as hard as they can, continue to reveal Trump’s rampant abuse of power, unfitness for office, and general criminality, and make the case, both publicly and politically that Trump is an unfit President. If it takes a full year or more, fine.

But I will agree with Mueller on this: It’s time for Congress to do it’s damn job, and that means in this context opening impeachment hearings. Wringing hands, waiting for Mueller to testify and save Congress is just wishing for unicorns. Congress needs to act. Period.

And if anyone says “OH that will just re-elect Trump”, please present actual evidence other than the deeply inaccurate analogy to the Clinton impeachment. It’s an inapt and invalid analogy, conclusively proven by a great deal of easily referenced historical facts and I categorically reject it. Also, if you take that position, you have to account for how the 2020 Dems will account for the Trump claims of total exoneration and his counter-attacks on political enemies when the “don’t call it impeachment” fizzles out, AND you have to account for Trump will be emboldened by not being held accountable. So unless you have strong evidence, plus a way to account for the Trump counter-attack, PLUS a way to account for Trump over-reaching after “victory”, any worries about “impeachment helping Trump” are IMO not valid counter arguments. And lastly, yes, impeachment is what Trump wants. But he’s also an idiot who will not admit to himself that he’s abusing his power, and who has a vastly simplistic view of politics. He’s not a political genius where doing what he wants is exactly the wrong thing. He’s so much of an idiot that his preferences should be disregarded in favor of good judgment.

And good judgment leads to the conclusion that impeachment hearings are now necessary.

3148

If Congress wants to impeach, or just to exercise proper oversight, they will need Mueller to testify in public. That is part of their job. If he thinks he can just ride off into the sunset, he likely has another think coming. Also, a subpoena.

3149

Eh, Mueller is not going to say a single word that he did not say in his report. I don’t like that at all, but it’s clearly his plan. His testimony is not going to produce anything that is not already in his report. If Congress thinks he is going to reach a legal conclusion for them, it is sorely mistaken.

I used to think that the “magic words” could be winkled out of Mueller with good questioning but after today I have changed my view. He is going to answer every question that asks him to reach a legal conclusion by saying something along the lines of “as I said on page 23 line 12 of my report…” and he’s going to keep doing that and doing that and doing that until the old dog weak-ass litigators in Congress look like fools. I wish this were not true but I am convinced it is. He clearly views reaching a conclusion, or making a definitive statement about impeachment or obstruction as Congress’ job, not his job, and I believe he is going to stick to that. I do not like that one bit, but I’ve dealt with battle-scarred old litigators like him and that is not a fight I want to pick. I could be wrong of course, if Congress gets into an adverse conflict with Mueller rather than focusing its wrath on Trump et. al. that is a great waste in my view.

Edit: One additional note. In order to emphasize it’s subpoena power, Congress probably should subpoena Mueller and get him on the record, but they should also be prepared to learn nothing new at and achieve nothing of substance. Probably the best thing they could do is have Mueller testify as to what he did not investigate and what further discovery he did not pursue, and use that as ammo to further their own investigation. In fact, as I write this, I think that’s my preferred Congressional plan of action: subpoena Mueller, get him on record, and use him to build a case for further investigation.