3733

I was originally for proceeding cautiously and methodically as we built up a case for impeachment. I’m 100% in agreement with you now, though. Whatever the plan is, if there is a plan, is not working. This isn’t just about winning any old election, I feel like this is a fight against authoritarianism, concentration camps, bigotry, and rule of law. I’m done fucking around and playing patty cake while the entire country slides into the abyss.

3734

IANAL, but I think there is very little legal basis one can use to fail to appear in response to a Congressional subpoena, for pretty much anyone other than the President. Even if you’re invoking some kind of legal basis for not answering the questions — Executive Privilege, the 5th Amendment, classified information, investigation in progress, etc — you have to show up and invoke it, and you have to do it in response to actual questions rather than simply signaling in advance that you intend to do it or offering it as blanket response to preclude the questions being asked. I also think that the courts will uphold that; they will say that you have to respond to the subpoena and show up, though you may invoke a privilege or right in response to the actual questions.

The Dems should subpoena people and have court challenges ready to file the instant those people decline to appear or fail to show up. They should do the same when people fail to surrender documents or other things in response to subpoenas. They should do everything under the imprimatur of an impeachment inquiry to create the basis for an expedited hearing and ruling on enforcing the subpoenas.

What they have to do is get these people on camera refusing to answer leading questions based on the public evidence. Ask them to confirm something we all know they told Mueller’s investigators; either they respond to confirm it, or they claim privilege which doesn’t exist (since they’ve already testified to it), or they stand on their fifth amendment rights (equally absurd). The public sees this because it is a big deal, a fight, and the public always tunes in for a fight.

Combine this with bringing in experts. Question McGann about Trump’s efforts to fire Mueller, get the details on the record regardless of how he responds, then bring in a string of former prosecutors who can testify that this is a textbook case of obstruction.

3735

Well, Common Cause is calling for an impeachment inquiry, which they’ve never done before.

3736

On what ground? The difference is that Trump fired him to derail an ongoing investigation. Clinton would have fired him for political meddling that clearly contravened FBI policy. He actually deserved to be fired for that.

3737

Yeah, the Pod Save America crowd have all come around to impeachment partly on the grounds that politically it cannot be worse than this weird shadow-impeachment-goo we’re living in now.

3738

Well, the cool thing is that we can all now debate the death penalty again and forget about Trump.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/attorney-general-death-penalty-william-barr_n_5d39b9e7e4b0419fd3391ef7

3739

This is a reasonable question, but the GOP would have impeached Clinton simply for being elected.

3740

Well, I think Al Franken illustrates something else.

The Democrats forced Franken out of office, because they believed what he did was wrong. The fact that the Republicans don’t think the same things are wrong shouldn’t change that fact.

ISIS fighters cut off the heads of innocent civilians. But that’s wrong. The fact that they do that doesn’t mean that we should. Sometimes, you gotta do stuff, or not do stuff, base on what you know to be right… not simply because you expect reciprocity from your opponent.

It’s frustrating to have folks cheat and be bullies… but the answer is not to simply become like them. Bad guys are going to do stuff which gives them advantages, but which are immoral and unethical. That’s part of what makes them bad guys.

On the topic of the Mueller hearing… The real problem is that so many folks have become obsessed with reality TV show bullshit. People have no attention span. People don’t want to be bothered with reading, or even listening to, complex things.

We had a hearing where the second longest serving head of the FBI testified, under oath before congress, that the current President of the united states committed multiple counts of obstruction of justice. That he welcomed and embraced election interference by a hostile foreign power.

And yet the media’s initial takes were, “Mueller didn’t seem as engaging or entertaining”. And folks are actually letting this become the narrative.

Jesus fucking christ, shut the fuck up. The guy’s not an actor. He’s not a reality show imbecile. It reminds me of someone like George S. Patton… A great armor warfare general, idolized by his troops. But the REAL Patton had a high, squeaky voice. He didn’t have the presence of George C. Scott playing him. But that crap isn’t real. At some point, the fiction, the “optics” have become more important than the substance, and we need to push back on that.

Trump obstructed justice, worked with the Russians, and lied repeatedly to the American people. That should be the lede on every fucking news outlet. Fuck them if they can’t do their jobs competently. Don’t let their incompetence drive the narrative. Don’t let them make YOU think that none of it matters.

3741

Huh. I had no idea.

3742

People have no interest in the real: they expect a neatly-plotted TV show and get mad when reality refuses to comply. This applies to the good guys just as much as the Fox news junkies.

It’s pretty clear, for example, that some posters here think Pelosi is weak because she hasn’t ordered the House Justice League to throw Conway into the House Prison For Evil-Doers. Never mind that there’s literally no mechanism for doing that, and that “civil enforcement in response to noncompliance with a House subpoena [is likely] to be a long, slow slog through the courts. The Miers litigation, for example, took roughly 19 months to resolve.” People want life to be a Law and Order episode, with musical stingers, one-liners, and everything wrapped up within the hour.

3743

Part of the reason we elect people to represent us is because it’s unreasonable to ask everybody to read a complex 400 page report. You want somebody representing you who can read it, understand it, and make decisions that are in your best interest that are based on the contents of the report.

The problem is the feedback loop the media creates. Representatives are too worried about their next election cycle to make decisions that are in the best interest of the people they represent. Ironically, it’s because of the people they represent that they cannot function in an effective manner. This is kind of like a 3D tragedy of the commons problem. The irony is that the government exists specifically to address tragedy of the commons problems.

3744

Pretty sure that people think Pelosi is weak because she’s got a fairly narrow view of the optics on these issues and is proceeding on the political considerations that spring from those optics. She could instead proceed based on what is right. And/or she could have the more visionary view of the optics that we’d expect from a leader, i.e. an aggressive investigation and repeated hammering on these acts would have the same effect as gaslighting–sow doubt, erode support, seed resistance. Either would having her acting more aggressively against Trump’s criminal acts. She seems weak because she’s acting entirely defensively, even in the face of a blatant criminal conspiracy to undermine our democracy. What do we have Congress for if not as a check against that?

3745

I posted this above. It takes 15 minutes to read and covers everything you need to know in as much detail as necessary:

3746

Motherfuckers

3747

For smarmy dismissiveness, this is hard to beat. Kudos!

That aside, there are a lot of perfectly reasonable people out there - professionals and lawyers - arguing for impeachment.

3749

But of course I’m not talking in that post about impeachment (and, as I’ve said many times, I’m all in favor of impeachment, just not until, say, end of the year.)

What I’m talking about here is the fact that various people are mad that the House hasn’t already thrown Conway, Barr et. al. in jail for contempt or somehow already obtained Trump’s tax returns when in fact the only non-magical-thinking way of doing those things is the long, slow, non-cinematic slog through the courts.

3750

How much time elapsed between the refusal to produce the tax returns and a court filing on the matter? Why blame the courts when the delay so far has been failure to pursue it in court expeditiously?

3751

What on earth are you talking about? It is being pursued in court. The House has already sued to obtain Trump’s tax returns (and just yesterday Trump counter-sued to stop them getting them.)

3752

tl;dr gotta get back to my TikTok and Insta.

3753

It’s right there, in the text you quoted: