Trump/Russia 2016 election investigation (continued, now with Ukraine!)

Seems to me that risk is more than offset by the risk of telling this same person that he will not face any consequences at all for anything he does while in office or from what he did before.

Becoming President literally becomes a Get of of Jail Free card.

And that should give some pause. I’m not saying that the President should be above the law, necessarily, but if you’re going to indict and jail a president, the case had better be very ironclad.

But the upside of that: if you’re at all worried about any skeletons in your closet, or your preferred way of doing things…maybe don’t run for President.

And subsequent leaders, being smart individuals, will realize this and maybe not break as many laws?

Yes, I absolutely 100% want to roll that dice. Because if we are afraid to then we already leave in a tyrannical state and the time for the revolution is now.

It’s gonna be a shitty seal to break once the need to break it arises. The need to do so may be at hand with the sitting president, perhaps.

But in cases where it has to happen…well, it has to happen.

Og’s right, it’s a dangerous line to cross.

But i just cannot accept allowing to Trump to violate so many laws and norms, and actually profit off of it to the tune of at least millions of dollars.

That sets just as dangerous a precedent, to me.

There’s a good chance that the SDNY and NY Tax Authority will wreck The Trump Org. I hope so. He’ll still make a lot on speaking fees and such, but maybe he loses the plane and gold toilet.

Wouldn’t they have to prove their case in court prior to jailing someone? If it can be proven and a conviction obtained in court, why not send whomever it is to jail? It’s not like the Democrats in this case will get to just throw him in a cell without any trial, and the same would be true if the Republicans tried it against a Democrat.

You missed some steps there. To end up in jail that President would still need to be tried and convicted by a jury of his/her peers. That’s how the system works and it’s reasonable. I’d even be mostly okay with seeing a jury conviction and then commuting the sentence. The key concept here is that you should not be immune to the consequences of your criminal actions, no matter what office you once held. No one is suggesting jail by fiat.

You don’t say. ;)

They all swore their oaths to the Constitution, not to Shitgibbon. And I’m not worried they’re going to forget that.

If you’re at the point in your democracy where you’re afraid that the Military will go rogue if the President decides to resist a lawful indictment… you’re not living in a democracy.

Other democracies have managed to indict and arrest their former heads of state without descending into anarchy. In fact (and this is one of the few positives in what is otherwise a pretty dark timeline), corrupt leaders all over the world are increasingly finding justice catch up with them in the past few years. If your democracy is past the point where this is a possibility, it’s probably past the point of saving. The end-game to that development is Erdogan and Putin.

Prosecuting criminal leaders is not jailing leaders. There’s a distinction between lock her up and hmm, this is interesting, maybe we ought to refer it to a Federal prosecutor.

I’ll go on record and say that I’m for prosecuting, convicting, and jailing our leaders, no matter their party, if they committed crimes before, during, or after they hold office.

I mean we know the GOP is going to try their best anyways. How many hours of testimony did they subject Hillary to on Benghazi? They spent how long arguing that Obama wasn’t a lawful President due to the birther bullshit? This is what they do. We need to jail criminals, regardless of which party they’re in, even if it’s the President.

But we already don’t jail rich people (unless their crime is screwing over richer people).

Normally, I’d agree. But Trump is completely abnormal. I’m absolutely fine with him going to jail, on any legitimate charges that would results in jail time for a typical American.

We do it for members of Congress. I don’t see the difference.

And I agree if we can’t then we already live in a tyrannical scenario and might as well start a revolution.

What the fuck is this bullshit.

We shouldn’t imprison some asshole for breaking shitloads of laws because he won an election?

What the fuck is wrong with you people. Get your heads out of this worship of the nobility. They’re just assholes who inherited some assets. It doesn’t make them any more than you or me.

I’m seriously disappointed right now.

That’s basically what it comes down to. If the evidence of crimes and corruption point to indictment and trial, then they do.

The more dangerous precedent would be to let it go unpunished, as you say.

I think we already saw this play out with the fall of the Roman Republic.