The problem is that “collusion” here doesn’t mean any particular crime, so everyone is free to define it however they wish. The GOP is dead set on not impeaching Trump, so unless Mueller actually has video of Trump talking to Putin, exchanging money, and negotiating attacks on everyone else during the election, nothing will happen. Period. Any other evidence is “no collusion” and gets handwaved as rogue agents acting without Trump’s knowledge, partisan attacks, or something any good capitalist would do in the same situation.
Mueller’s report is just going to rehash a bunch of the same stuff we already read over the past year. Any “bombshells” will be absorbed in the mire of Congress.
It is the current opinion of the DOJ. I don’t know that it is the current opinion of most legal experts, and I do know that the DOJ opinion on the matter is quite clear that nothing in the plain language of the Constitution can be read to immunize the President from prosecution.
BTW, Marcy’s entire backgrounder on what might be in there – based on what’s been indicted and appeared in sentencing briefs – is really good and worth a read.
A President was impeached (but not convicted) for lying under oath about consensual sex with someone not-his-spouse, so I’m not sure why y’all think impeaching Trump over what’s already known is so far beyond the pale ;)
Which is a way to say stop worrying about what the GOP would do in response. The answer is: whatever fuckery is required to maintain power.
I respect Taibbi. He’s coming at this from the angle of media self-flagellation, which is fine.
Let’s see what the report says. My sense of being is not wrapped up in whether or not there is actionable evidence that Trump conspired with Russia. He’s a shit president either way. In any case, it will be interesting to see things play out in the coming weeks.
I know what he means, but this is the kind of self-centered blasé attitude that really grinds my gears about Americans. It really isn’t comparable.
Sorry about butting in a discussion that is none of my business, but someone needed to speak for the pointlessly dead.
I agree. Taibbi blames liberal media for not being introspective and too credulous for any anti-Trump news. What he really seems to be accusing it of is leaping to conclusions.
And since the report has been finished without demanding Trump be impeached (in essense) he leaps to the conclusion that they got it all wrong. The black or white sort of thinking he demonstrates there, this need for things to Be or Not Be, this centrality of emotional consequentialism and how so many on his side practice news today is probably more the issue than anything. (Progressivism as is practiced today by the Twitterati basically is social Consequentialism, imo)
He doesn’t know what’s in the report but Mueller’s report didn’t end in a bang, and so now everything falls apart and he spews out five thousand words of self recrimination kicking the ashes to understand.
That would be conviction, not impeachment. But I’m sure you know that. You want conviction to be a sure thing before you impeachment; but we ain’t talking Death or Taxes. I also notice Nancy Pelosi getting quite a bit of heat for having essentially the same opinion.
Also a topic been talked round and round in these here parts several times already so need to rehash. Moving on!
So much this. It’s pointless otherwise, when only one or two Blue State Republican House members (if any) will vote to impeach and maybe the same number in the Senate will vote to convict.
The reason is based on the impeachment of the president you cite. Republicans impeaching Clinton in '99 and '00 probably cost them control of the House that year, and didn’t help in the Senate, where the GOP dropped 4 seats to fall to a 50-50 breakdown. By every indicator, Republicans should’ve gained both houses of Congress and the White House that year.
But what happened was, the failure to convict on impeachment made Clinton more sympathetic and helped the Democrats. And on the stump, incumbent House GOP members got grilled about the political nature of the impeachment instead of about issues. Democrats were able to stick to issues and actually gained seats.
Nancy Pelosi and other senior Democrats know that history well. They’re loathe to repeat it.
